Importing Drum Patterns

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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by lucas » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:53 pm

Preliminary tests show it works well.
BTW, that WAV converter is freakin' quick. :shock:

I had a odd thing happen, when i converted just the current takes from all tracks I was able to get the midi drum file to line up just by entering the BPM in REAPER's little bpm box.
When I converted all takes from all tracks from the same project, the midi track didn't line up, but I was able to use the bounced drum track to get in place.
When I did the all tracks conversion I unchecked the bass since I didn't need it. will try again later to see if that's the issue.
regardless, it's very usable in this form as is. :D

awesome job, Codekiddie!! :^: :^:
double-plus good!
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by codekiddie » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:38 am

lucas wrote:Preliminary tests show it works well.
BTW, that WAV converter is freakin' quick. :shock:
Glad you like it. I think it is much quicker and friendlier than the old Zoom AFM, (but I would say that). 8)
lucas wrote:I had a odd thing happen, when i converted just the current takes from all tracks I was able to get the midi drum file to line up just by entering the BPM in REAPER's little bpm box.
What BPM did you use in the converter???
lucas wrote:When I converted all takes from all tracks from the same project, the midi track didn't line up, but I was able to use the bounced drum track to get in place.
I tried the same with Reaper, but it didn't matter how I converted the audio tracks, (current takes or all takes), it didn't line up with the Midi. I didn't really expect any different, since the same routines in the software are used to create the audio files, and can't see why you would get different result either. :nuts:

I am not surprised that the bounced track lines up with the audio, as it is simply becomes another audio track.

It is not a tempo problem, as it neither gets worse or better as the song progresses, indicating that both tracks are running at the same BPM.

After some experimenting I found that the Audio was starting exactly 1/32 note early. I changed the time signature to 4/32, so I could move the audio tracks up by 1/32nd note, and presto, they all lined up perfectly. :P

I then tried a Midi file from the Windows folder, (town.mid), which had the same tempo (120BPM), and imported that into Reaper and deleted all but the drum track. I had exactly the same problem until I moved the Audio tracks up 1/32nd note, (it sounded odd, because it wasn't meant to be the beat for my song, but it was in time with the audio tracks). This implies that there is nothing wrong with my Midi file generation. :P

Since I have no control over the start point of the audio during conversion, (it is simply a stream of audio data), I am guessing it must be something in the recorder that starts the audio 1/32nd note later than the drum and Bass tracks, but I can't think why they would do that :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: It's a shame that it's not round the other way, as I can delay the Midi start point in the file!!!
lucas wrote:When I did the all tracks conversion I unchecked the bass since I didn't need it. will try again later to see if that's the issue.
I don't think it is, as they are two separate tracks in a Midi file, and the timing would be the same, whether the Bass was added or not, but please do try it and let me know.
lucas wrote:regardless, it's very usable in this form as is. :D

awesome job, Codekiddie!! :^: :^:
double-plus good!
Thanks for the feedback Lucas, it all helps.
surfercook wrote:The drum track sounded awesome w/an EZ kit loaded first try...just so perfect. :drum: :D
Then I converted all the audio tracks w/your other converter and tossed em in...Everything is syncing up ok.
Good work over there, codiePhil!
Surfercook, I can't understand why you are not having a problem with syncing like Lucas and I??? Maybe more testing required. Which recorders did you guys use for testing?
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by lucas » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:59 am

Just finished more testing with 2 other MRS-8 projects in addition to the one I sent you.
- Bass checked or unchecked doesn't matter.
- Midi file just needs to be slid over a bit in the track, but this is easy to figure out since I have a drum wav of the midi output from the MRS-8 so don't sweat that.
- I ignored the tempo input on the converter since I only know the tempo for the project I sent you. again, this is easily figured and really not an issue.
- my biggest issue is that although the KICK and SNARE appear to line up, the closed hat is being assigned to the stick hit, the open hat to the crash and the crash to the open hat. I am assuming this is a midi note assignment issue. Is there a way to reassign or re-map the notes to the correct ones for Addictive Drums?
- second issue is I am unable to fully edit these files for some reason. I can delete notes, change velocity, but I cannot move them (they also appear really, really small in the REAPER editor. as in, tiny). I am also unable to select the notes by clicking on them.
if I could select and move them it would more or less negate the previous assignment issue, since I would just select them all and slide them where they need to be.
I can, however, create new notes and copy them.

This is still far superior to generating an entirely new midi file, since the kick & snare are done and I can already see where the new notes need to be placed.

regardless of the issues, it's a some pretty impressive programing. :)

NOTE: I looked at my MRS-1608 projects, but it looks like I never really used that machine for anything but converting 4-track & 8-track tape projects to digital.
so unfortunately, I have no SEQ files to test for that unit.
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by lucas » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:26 am

UPDATE: I just discovered that if I create a new note before the first converted note and a new note after the last converted note, I can select all the notes between them by selecting one new note, holding shift and selecting the other new note!
I am then able to move all the notes selected anywhere on the grid! :D
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by codekiddie » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:38 am

lucas wrote:Just finished more testing with 2 other MRS-8 projects in addition to the one I sent you.
- Bass checked or unchecked doesn't matter.
- Midi file just needs to be slid over a bit in the track, but this is easy to figure out since I have a drum wav of the midi output from the MRS-8 so don't sweat that.
- I ignored the tempo input on the converter since I only know the tempo for the project I sent you. again, this is easily figured and really not an issue.
Didn't think the Bass would make a difference. Which way are you sliding the Midi to resolve the problem??
lucas wrote:- my biggest issue is that although the KICK and SNARE appear to line up, the closed hat is being assigned to the stick hit, the open hat to the crash and the crash to the open hat. I am assuming this is a midi note assignment issue. Is there a way to reassign or re-map the notes to the correct ones for Addictive Drums?
The drum parts as they stand, line up with the all the Midi standards that I have read, i.e. note #42 (closed hat), #46 (open hat), and #49(crash). Does Addictive Drums not let you do the re-mapping since it seems it is the one that is non-standard?
lucas wrote:- second issue is I am unable to fully edit these files for some reason. I can delete notes, change velocity, but I cannot move them (they also appear really, really small in the REAPER editor. as in, tiny). I am also unable to select the notes by clicking on them.
if I could select and move them it would more or less negate the previous assignment issue, since I would just select them all and slide them where they need to be.
This is because the drum notes do not have any length assigned to them.The MRS recorder RHYTHM.SEQ files do not allocate length to drum events so no length to convert to Midi. I have tinkered with the software now and added my own drum beat length assignment so that editing in Reaper is now possible. I will let you know when I post this version.
lucas wrote:This is still far superior to generating an entirely new midi file, since the kick & snare are done and I can already see where the new notes need to be placed.

regardless of the issues, it's a some pretty impressive programing. :)
Glad it fits the bill so far, and it can only get better because of feedback like yours to keep the program development going.
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by codekiddie » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:49 pm

lucas wrote:- my biggest issue is that although the KICK and SNARE appear to line up, the closed hat is being assigned to the stick hit, the open hat to the crash and the crash to the open hat. I am assuming this is a midi note assignment issue. Is there a way to reassign or re-map the notes to the correct ones for Addictive Drums?
- second issue is I am unable to fully edit these files for some reason. I can delete notes, change velocity, but I cannot move them (they also appear really, really small in the REAPER editor. as in, tiny). I am also unable to select the notes by clicking on them.
if I could select and move them it would more or less negate the previous assignment issue, since I would just select them all and slide them where they need to be.
Lucas. I have just uploaded the latest version, which should now allow you to edit the Midi notes correctly. As well as that, I have added support for drum note mapping, so you can fix the problem with Addictive Drums. :P

Enjoy!!!
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by lucas » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:57 pm

codekiddie wrote:Which way are you sliding the Midi to resolve the problem??
to the right. The Midi file appears to always start a beat or 2 before it should. haven't really measured that, though.
codekiddie wrote:Does Addictive Drums not let you do the re-mapping since it seems it is the one that is non-standard?
I assumed it was since I read something regarding this when I was first setting it up. I haven't had a chance to look into whether I can re-assign or not.
codekiddie wrote:The MRS recorder RHYTHM.SEQ files do not allocate length to drum events so no length to convert to Midi.
That explains why they're so small. They are apparently too small to click on, no matter how much you expand the view! Did you read my update? All I had to do was create a note before and after all the notes on one line and use them to select all the notes in between. Then I can move them. after that I can select them individually, resize them or whatever. They become completely editable. (not edible).I had an acceptable Addictive drum track up and runnning in 15-20 minutes and most of that time was spent selecting the kit and customizing the Hi-Hat.

sweet!

I am having an issue with one of the other projects. The midi drums appear to drift out of sync with the WAV drums. I think it may just be something I did when I first set up that Reaper project, so I'll try the whole thing over from scratch when i get a chance. Have to work on some other things right now, but will let you know how it turns out.
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by lucas » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:02 am

UPDATE: I re-exported the midi file for the troubled project.
I unchecked the bass and entered the BPM, since I know it now.
brought the new midi file into the Reaper project, moved the HiHat notes to their proper place, did a couple of quick edits and tried out a few drum kits.
works greats!
only took me 10-15 minutes this time, big improvement over 2-3 days to re-create the drum track. :D

I'll look at re-assigning midi notes in Addictive Drums later, but this is very usable now.

Thanks so much, codekiddie!
Great job!
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by lucas » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:32 am

UPDATE #2: Found the Midi Note editor! It's very easy to move them around for re-assignment.
Imported a new instance of the midi file to track already loaded with Addictive Drums and mapped according to the same notes as the file.
slid the file over a little on the track and it sounds great!
Took less than 5 minutes I think!
I am so stoked about this!!
w00t!

++ :)
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by codekiddie » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:12 am

lucas wrote:to the right. The Midi file appears to always start a beat or 2 before it should. haven't really measured that, though.
Thats weird. All mine have to have the audio tracks moved to the right by 1/32nd note. :roll:
lucas wrote:I had an acceptable Addictive drum track up and runnning in 15-20 minutes and most of that time was spent selecting the kit and customizing the Hi-Hat.
Excellent!!! :drum:
lucas wrote:I am having an issue with one of the other projects. The midi drums appear to drift out of sync with the WAV drums.
Sounds more like the tempo is off. Have you tried listening to the drum track and the bounced track together on the recorder to see if they do the same?
lucas wrote:UPDATE: I re-exported the midi file for the troubled project.
I unchecked the bass and entered the BPM, since I know it now.
brought the new midi file into the Reaper project, moved the HiHat notes to their proper place, did a couple of quick edits and tried out a few drum kits.
works greats!
only took me 10-15 minutes this time, big improvement over 2-3 days to re-create the drum track. :D
It is always best if you can to enter the tempo in the software.
lucas wrote:UPDATE #2: Found the Midi Note editor! It's very easy to move them around for re-assignment.
Imported a new instance of the midi file to track already loaded with Addictive Drums and mapped according to the same notes as the file.
slid the file over a little on the track and it sounds great!
Took less than 5 minutes I think!
I am so stoked about this!!
w00t!

++ :)
Excellent work Lucas. Thanks again for all your testing and updates. Can you think of anything else that is needed in the software to make it even easier to use??? :type: :type: :type:
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by lucas » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:41 am

codekiddie wrote:Can you think of anything else that is needed in the software to make it even easier to use???
the only thing I can think of would be to make the SOURCE & TARGET navigation easier.
I only have 3 songs to convert so it's not a problem for me, but if you have 5-10 or more songs to convert, navigating to the correct folder from the basic drive view will be a tedious and very clicky experience.
is there a way to manually enter the paths or maybe have the browse button open from the current folder?

I haven't tried the new version of the converter yet, is it available from the same link in the previous post?
I used the Midi map window in Addictive to change it. Then found that Addictive has a drop down menu to select GM mapping for Midi. both ways worked well.
Last edited by lucas on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by codekiddie » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:17 am

lucas wrote:
codekiddie wrote:Can you think of anything else that is needed in the software to make it even easier to use???
the only I can think of would be to make the SOURCE & TARGET navigation easier.
I only have 3 songs to convert so it's not a problem for me, but if you have 5-10 or more songs to convert, navigating to the correct folder from the basic drive view will be a tedious and very clicky experience.
is there a way to manually enter the paths or maybe have the browse button open from the current folder?
By the 'current folder' do you mean the folder where the program resides, as that is the default on program start? I can make it look there each time the Source button is pressed.
lucas wrote:I haven't tried the new version of the converter yet, is it available from the same link in the previous post?
The same link will always open the latest version.
lucas wrote:I used the Midi map window in Addictive to change it. Then found that Addictive has a drop down menu to select GM mapping for Midi. both ways worked well.
Cool. 8) You must send me a couple of wav's of the Addictive drum kit compared to the normal .Mid file, so I can have a listen.
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by surfercook » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:40 am

codekiddie wrote:Sounds more like the tempo is off.
You guys might need this. Been too biz to work on your new software, codie. Looks like lucas is on it! :agree:
http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by lucas » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:10 am

Thanks Surfercook, but I was just being too lazy to fire up my MRS-8 to check the BPM and now I think I'm already done using the codekiddie's converter, since I only had 3 projects to convert. :)
codekiddie wrote:By the 'current folder' do you mean the folder where the program resides
no, I meant the path currently listed next to the "SOURCE' or "TARGET' buttons.
I just needed to change the last folder in the path, but the browse button starts me off in the computer view with the drives listed.
I usually keep my projects in the same basic locations on a drive, but maybe 2-3 folders deep. It's little bit of a chore to go from the 'computer' view to the folder I need each time, if I were doing this more than 4-5 times that is.
codekiddie wrote:Cool. 8) You must send me a couple of wav's of the Addictive drum kit compared to the normal .Mid file, so I can have a listen.
2 of the songs are already posted on my soundclick test page. I'll load the new versions up and leave the old ones for comparison once I'm ready.
I'll make a note here or send you a PM when they're up.
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by codekiddie » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:55 am

lucas wrote:I meant the path currently listed next to the "SOURCE' or "TARGET' buttons.
I just needed to change the last folder in the path, but the browse button starts me off in the computer view with the drives listed.
Hi Lucas. New version now allows manual editing of the path. Get it here:

Rhythm_Convert.zip
lucas wrote:
codekiddie wrote:Cool. 8) You must send me a couple of wav's of the Addictive drum kit compared to the normal .Mid file, so I can have a listen.
2 of the songs are already posted on my soundclick test page. I'll load the new versions up and leave the old ones for comparison once I'm ready.
Thanks, it will be good to compare them.
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by Lee » Mon May 23, 2011 9:40 pm

codekiddie - thank you for posting your executable. Very cool!
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Re: Importing Drum Patterns

Post by codekiddie » Wed May 25, 2011 5:34 am

Lee wrote:codekiddie - thank you for posting your executable. Very cool!
No problem Lee, glad it is of some use to you guys.
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