Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

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Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by MISTAJONAH » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:52 am

I found a drum beat in the preset list. But it has a ride bell in it. I want the bass drum and snare but open hats instead of the ride. I got as far as copying the beat to a blank patch. Possible/easy?
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by Jim_Fogle » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:13 am

Yes. You can edit any of the built-in drum or bass patterns or create new ones from scratch. Pattern selections and edits are specific to the song.

A list of patterns and the original midi information for each pattern are permantly stored in the MRS-8 read only memory (ROM). Everytime you create a new project a copy of the pattern list is loaded into a SEQ file inside the project folder.

When you are scrolling through the pattern list to review patterns, or using just one pattern as a metronome, the pattern's midi data is copied from ROM to the SEQ file then played from the SEQ file. When you join patterns together the midi data from each pattern is copied from ROM to the song SEQ file inside the project folder. When you edit the midi data of a pattern or create a new pattern the edits are actually made to the midi patterns stored in the SEQ file inside the project folder.

Some users have created a sort of master SEQ file where they store all their newly created or edited patterns. They then copy the master SEQ file into a project folder and replace the default SEQ file created with the project. That way they don't have to create their patterns from scratch each time they want to work on a song project.

You can use the MRS-8 pads to modify existing patterns or create new ones however many people find that to be time consuming and error prone. Look in the MRS FAQ, Tips and Tricks post and you'll find pattern editors to help with creating, modifying and managing your pattern creations
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by MISTAJONAH » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:10 pm

Thanks for the info Jim. I did find the SEQ folder-now that I know what to look for. That pattern editor looks awesome. It'll look better on pay day! ;)
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by Jim_Fogle » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:07 pm

MISTAJONAH wrote:Thanks for the info Jim. I did find the SEQ folder-now that I know what to look for. That pattern editor looks awesome. It'll look better on pay day! ;)
Don't overlook the free pattern editor created by forum member, CodeKidde.

All three pattern editor programs require the SEQ file to have one or more patterns loaded. Even if you are creating a pattern from scratch the programs need a pattern to work with in the beginning.
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by MISTAJONAH » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:56 am

Jim_Fogle wrote:
Don't overlook the free pattern editor created by forum member, CodeKidde.
I did overlook that one. So I went looking for it and didn't find it. I thought maybe he deleted his account or I spelled it wrong. But I found it codekiddie. Instead of one song the scan found three. But I've only ever had one test project on there. I recorded a blue's jam on tracks 1-5. Each on Virtual track 1. The drums I want to change are on Track 1 VR 1. But even with this new tool I still can't find the pattern I want to change.
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by Jim_Fogle » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:47 am

Sorry I got the name spelling incorrect. Easy to do when I'm working from memory. You recorded the output of the bass and drums pattern generator on Track 1 VR 1 however the pattern editors create and modify the midi data that's inside a pattern.

For instance lets say you want to duplicate pattern 235 then modify its content. First you duplicate pattern 235 by copying it to an empty pattern such as 400. Pattern 400 will now have the same name and (drum and bass) midi data as pattern 235. Now you can look up the midi drum instruments and/or bass note numbers in the reference guides of the MRS-8 owners manual. Delete all the midi events for the cymbal bell and replace them with the instrument sound you want. Then you can rename pattern 400 to a new name. Finally, you save pattern 400 and the saved information will be copied from system RAM to the song's SEQ file in the project folder.

Then you can select pattern 400 wherever you orginally selected pattern 235 in your song and you weill hear the drum instruments you programmed instead of the drum instruments used in pattern 235.

One more point. When it comes to the built-in drum and bass machine the MRS-8 does not have all the features present in other Zoom MRS recorders. The other Zoom MRS recorders have a feature called scene that takes a snapshot of all your track settings (pan, fader volume, effects,etc.) at designated points so by changing scenes you are performing a crude version of automation. Scenes let you select different drum sets for a larger palette of sounds. The MRS-8 DOES NOT support scenes.
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by MISTAJONAH » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:14 am

Jim,
PLEASE don't apologize. It was meant in jest. I should have put a ;)
You've been a lot of help and I thank you!
It's funny that you mention Pattern Copying. Because that's exactly what I did.
Then I re-read the Step input section. Function+keypad to erase the lighted pad's sound. When I played it back the Ride was still there! :twisted:
THEN I re-read the Quantize section. Ride's are gone. :rock:
Using the MRS step makes me miss my Boss 220 A & E drum machine. Yes, I'm ancient!
The 220's step input was a visible grid.
Codekiddie's File Converter is awesome! It worked so fast I thought it didn't. I actually said "#@%! -it didn't work!"
This is all a learning process. If I get something I like on the MRS drum-wise I'll transfer it's MIDI to my EZDrummer. I started with a 4 track cassette deck so I like the "feel" and presence of the MRS as a unit over a PC screen and DAW. But the DAW is the final destination.
So until my next "problem"-PROST!
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by Jim_Fogle » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:51 pm

I've read elsewhere that the MRS-8 instrument sounds as well as the drum and bass patterns are very similiar to some of the patterns in the Zoom RT-223 drum machine https://www.zoom-na.com/products/produc ... um-machine. I've also read the steps to use Zoom's pattern compiler, FAST, is the same for many Zoom devices.

More often than not I will use a MRS-8 drum pattern as a metronome or click track while recording or editing but will use prerecorded drums for my drum sounds. I've not had much success programming patterns unless I first record a scratch track. Then I can use the MRS-8's screen to display measures and I can determine what measure the song starts, finishes, how many measures for each verse, chorus and bridge and so on. Essentially I use the MRS-8 display to map out my song!
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by MISTAJONAH » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:36 pm

Thanks-that's good info to have.
I did get to check out some of your soundclick tunes-pretty cool. Sounds like you've put your MRS to good use!
I'm really far behind on some things. I just read today P. 142-Files on SD card. I don't have a lot of those files on my SD card and didn't know it. I bought mine used. So I went to Zoom site to see if I could find my missing files. Found the firmware update. I'm missing things and don't know how/where to get them.
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by Jim_Fogle » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:30 pm

The main mistake I know that people make when they buy a used MRS-8 is to use a SD memory card that has too much memory. The MRS-8 only works correctly with SD cards that have between 128 megabytes and 1 gigabyte. The brand od SD card does not seem to matter very much but the memory limitation is an absolute barrier you do not want to cross.

The worse offender is a 2 gigabyte sd card. Typically a 2 gigabyte sd card will appear to format. The MRS-8 will write and read from the card BUT ... over time the stored memory will become corrupt to the point errors start causing strange issues (like crashes, project won't load, continious write duringsave operation, etc.) and you find out all the song projects you've done are no longer accessible.

1 gigabyte sd cards are still available but you'll either have to find used ones or buy online. I bought a stack of ten sd cards onlline back when I saw they were beginning to be hard-to-find.

Second most popular mistake is to use a computer to format the sd card instead of the MRS-8. I can't tell you HOW the MRS-8 format differs from a computer format but I do believe there is a difference and formatting with the MRS-8 reduces the likelyhood ofhaving problems.

A good practice to develop is to maintain a copy of the sd card on your computer. I have a folder the is named "MRS-8 SD Card" on my computer. Every now and then I'll plug the MRS-8 sd card into my computer's sd card reader, open the sd card, use edit - select all, copy and then paste all the content into my "MRS-8 SD Card" folder. Then I can use the pattern editor and ZAF to WAV convertor programs on the computer folder content, not on the original card content.

I don't remember the exact file names but there are two or three system files that the MRS-8 creates during the format process. Project folders and some project files (such as the default SEQ file) are created when you use the MRS-8 new project command. Don't forget, the MRS-8 creates a project folder each time you want to start working on a new song.

I enjoy helping people learn and understand their MRS-8. Please feel free to ask any questions either in the forum or by sending a private message (pm).
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by MISTAJONAH » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:48 pm

Great info as usual! The card that came with mine was a 1GB. So with what little tests I've done I still have like 258 minutes left. It will never be full! Yes I have backed up what I've done to PC. I've learned the hard way from PC HD crashes. I have a collection of flash drives.
If I format my SD card in the MRS-8 would those files I'm missing appear on the card after format?
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by Jim_Fogle » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:49 am

The only files restored during a format include the SYSTEM.BIN file and the MACPRM.ZIF and SEQPLY.LST files located inside the SYS folder.

Everything else you might see belongs to a project so they are not created until you create a new project.

Files are described onpages 142 and 143 of the manual.

Also, remember that I said some people keep a pattern file with all the patterns they've created? Take a look at page 88 to see how to move patterns between projects if you don't use a pattern editor.
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by MISTAJONAH » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:40 am

Thanks Jim
On my card: SYS folder with only the MAC PRM.ZIF IN IT.
Two (small) project folders: PROJ000-PRJDATA.ZIF-RHYTHM.SEQ AND VARIOUS NUMBERED.ZAF'S
PROJ0001-PRJDATA.ZIF-RHYTHM.SEQ. This is the test project I tried to import midi files in to.
I did mention reading P. 142 in an earlier post. That's how I knew I was missing some things I probably need(ed).
I am going to save the small drum patterns I made and the two projects. I also made a paper list of the different amp settings I've made. it's going to be a long day. I won't be able to reformat until evening time.
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by Jim_Fogle » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:57 pm

Look at the sd card backup on your pc and see if the missing files are there. If they are then you can copy the missing files to the card.
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by MISTAJONAH » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:16 am

I didn't backup the SD card when I first got the unit. :roll: I never looked in the system file on it either-until recently. So I can't say for sure what was on it or not. I'm in the middle of a project right now so I don't want to format just yet. I'll post back after I do the format, :rock:
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by MISTAJONAH » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:24 pm

I did the reformat. Haven't recorded anything new. So the PROJ000 file just has the standard PRJDATA.ZIF and RHYTHM.SEQ files. The SYS folder just has the MAC PRM.ZIF file in it.
I don't see a SEQPLY.LST like you were saying because there are no projects just yet.
So I guess I have what I'm supposed to.
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Re: Is it possible to edit a drum preset in MRS-8?

Post by Jim_Fogle » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:43 pm

Interesting. I took the SD card file list from the manual as I don't have a backup on my pc for a clean, freshly formatted card with no projects.

I believe the SEQPLY.LST file is used by the MRS-8 when playing or mastering multiple projects.
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Zoom MRS-8
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