HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Check out the Home Made Hit Show with Tony and Dave at http://homemadehitshow.com
Post Reply
tonyoci
The Force
The Force
Posts: 8225
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:20 am
Location: Morgan Hill, CA

HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by tonyoci » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:56 pm

www.homemadehitshow.com for the show

----------------------------------------

Hopefully a stress free show from your hosts Tony Butterworth and Dave Criddle as they discussing home songwriting and recording.

Today we feature

* The show needs songs - SEND THEM !!!!
* Tape style edits in the digital form
* A possible song challenge to record a song with the title of a billboard number 1. Let us know what you think
* The difficulty in one man recording lesser sounding instruments that sound good in a mix
* Listening to music reduces stress (though recording may increase it)
* Tony professes his true feelings for Zoetrope
* Tours by Devo and Fran Healy from Travis
* More discussion of whether lyrics really matter
* Dave reminds us of www.vst4free.com
* Dave, hopefully, plays a segment on recording his XTC show

and of course we have songs

Les Cotton and Bjorn Niellsen - The Day That Comes

David Claridge - Portrait

Roy in La Mesa, CA - Floatin'
0 x

The Cracks
The Force
The Force
Posts: 9659
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:33 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by The Cracks » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:12 pm

I find that I don't get too stressed writing and recording but I get depressed when I hit a dry spell, which I am in now. :(

Les Cotton and Bjorn Niellsen - The Day That Comes - This is cool. This is a well written, well performed song. Really good job.

Now I'm even more depressed because I know I'll never be able to produce a sound like that. :(

One take. Wow. I'm depressed. :(

No songs coming from me. :(

Dave started a song. :(

Phil Collins. :cry:

My melodies used to come from the music line and I'd sing gibberish while I created the music. But that was then... :(

Metronomes & drums. :(

Guitar Fan wanted to collab with me over the summer. I had no motivation or ideas. :(

My good PC crashed and is now dead. I'm stuck with this one now. When I try to record, the PC hisses. :(

I used to get five minute jams from the likes of Riffmaster and others, and I would cut the thing up and create songs and then I'd add my vocals. But that was when I had the energy to do such things. Not any more... :(

I just read Enya sometimes layers hundreds of vocal tracks over very basic music. That's cool. That's depressing. :(

Dave's electric guitar. I haven't even plugged mine in since the spring. :(

I'm not too stressed either by work, finances, etc., although my job sucks and my bank account is empty. I get depressed by my lack of musical production. Did I mention that already? :( I'm kind of depressed by my past musical production too. Now that really sucks. :(

Brian Eno is pretty cool. :(

VST's - :(

David Claridge - Portrait - Beautiful guitar. What a rich recording. I wasn't expecting the bongo and this style of vocals. What a great surprise. This is a very well done song. The synth is neat too. I like this one.

Boy, he reminds me of George Harrison in many ways. That was great. :(

Yea, David Claridge is a beginner. What's that make me? :(

"...a little bit of effort." :(

The Beatles had hiss! :D Maybe I'll be okay on this piece of junk PC! :D

Turned on by Zoetrope? Yikes! :( I will say his song "Speed" always did something for me. Hmm... :shock:

Dave, I appreciate your discussion, but it went way over my head. But that's me. :( The music was great.

I loved reverb. :(

Hey, I did a similar challenge idea, except I didn't limit mine to #1's. It was write a song with the same title as a well know song. I put it on the forum someplace. Probaby this show a few weeks ago. I'd look, but what's the use? :(

I've always liked lyrics. I used to like writing them too. :( It is funny how in a really great song, it will quickly pass by and I almost always lose track of the lyrics, yet the song sticks. It's not until a second or third listen where the lyrics start sinking in. That's funny, huh? :(

"Bad bad _________ "- that's me. :(

Good lyrics are not required for a good song. I totally agree.

"A few catches of phrase" is often all many good song lyrics are when you really listen. A lot of "oh's" and "ah's," but when you really listen, the lyrics are short but catchy. Or something like that... :(

Fran Healy. That sounds interesting. I'll Youtube them...maybe... :(

I always thought a good way to sell albums (for the pros, not me) would be for them to include the ticket in the album sale. So, say you play in the Washington, D.C., area and the place holds 12,000, you could say the first 12,000 people who buy the album get tickets. But what would you do if you wanted to bring a date or someone else? Buy two albums. Hmm...that wouldn't work. :(

I have a four day weekend. Isn't that great? I'll have plenty of time not to write a song. :(

Roy in La Mesa, CA - Floatin' - This is great. I love the sound you captured. It really does sound like a souped up garage band. Great song. Great recording. I like it a lot. :(

Great show this week. :(
0 x
My albums

My songs

My website

"No matter how hard I tried [no song] was ever perfect. There was always a pimple somewhere.” Burt Bacharach

"If you're enjoying it, why do something else?" Sir Paul McCartney

"The chords inspire the melody and the melody inspires the lyrics." Brian Wilson

tonyoci
The Force
The Force
Posts: 8225
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:20 am
Location: Morgan Hill, CA

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by tonyoci » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:42 pm

Problem is Cracks concerts is where they make money not albums, so they would be better giving a free album with the concert ticket, which some do, and even these days you can often get a free mp3 of the show right afterwards.
0 x

criddlerus
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 826
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:16 pm
Contact:

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by criddlerus » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:02 am

Don't forget Prince's stunt of giving away an album with every newspaper sold in the UK that one time. I think only Prince can get away with that one.


Man, all those frownies were getting me down. :(

Let's see if I can turn things around.... 8) :lol: :P :P :D :D :D
0 x

User avatar
Zoetrope
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 6609
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by Zoetrope » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:14 am

Les Cotton and Bjorn Niellsen - The Day That Comes
Good tune, great one to open the show. I like that guitar tone.

* Tape style edits in the digital form
You really need to do cross fades or you're likely to get a blip.

And yes, layering one at a time is not the same as playing with a band and setting your sound to fit with everything you're hearing. That's why people like to muck around with EQ on their tracks, but it's not the same. Using VST effects (as opposed to printing effects) does let you achieve a similar result at mixing time.

*Stress!!!!!
I suggest wine.
Or music.

David Claridge - Portrait
This will be my millionth time mentioning this, I love it when people include acoustic instruments in their home recorded songs. That's going the extra mile. This sounds great. I had to look up "chuffed". :lol: I think most people would have put the vocal more in the middle rather than off to the sides (switching back and forth), but I think it's fine as is, it really gives the song a signature. One of the nice things about being home recordists is we can break the rules and explore more possibilities. Everything works well here. Great job. :^: :^:
:applause:

*The old 4 track days.
I'm right there with you Dave. Digital recording instantly made everything I did sound better without that annoying hisssssss. Here's to 1's and 0's!!!

*Zoom H4 recording of practice
Yup. I'm a stud.

Line in from mixer plus room mic versus built in mics. Definitely a HUGE improvement. The high end is back! Of course now it's lacking bottom, but then so is Dave from what I hear. :lol: (Sorry Dave, it just makes Tony so happy when I pick on you, how can I resist).

* A possible song challenge to record a song with the title of a billboard number 1. Let us know what you think

Tony's twist on my idea is good since it avoids hearing the same song over and over, but my idea was for everyone to do a creative cover version of the current billboard number 1 pop song.

* More discussion of whether lyrics really matter
R.E.M.
I rest my case.
Hey, what was Dave muttering about Iggy Pop? His lyrics are genius.
Im a street walking cheetah with a heart full of napalm
Im a runaway son of the nuclear a-bomb
You can't beat that.
or:
I stumble into town just like a sacred cow
Visions of swastikas in my head
Plans for everyone
It's in the whites of my eyes
Ah hell, let's do a whole song:
Well the day begins
You don't want to live
'Cause you can't believe
In the one you're with
'Cause you know her tricks
And you know her past
When she makes a face
You just have to laugh
And you feel like such a know-it-all
When you only want just a tiny girl
And you hope she'll sing.


So you turn around
Toward the tiny girls
Who have got no tricks
Who have got no past
Yea that's what you think
And you hope she'll sing
But she sings of greed
Like a young banshee
And she wants for this
And she wants for that
Ah, what did you think?
Oh yes, I do love Iggy. Here's that song for those who are interested in hearing it.

and now back to the show

Roy in La Mesa, CA - Floatin'
A nice rocker to end the show.

Great job as always, gents.
0 x

tonyoci
The Force
The Force
Posts: 8225
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:20 am
Location: Morgan Hill, CA

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by tonyoci » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:14 am

and you didn't even mention my love for you ??

Dave, the UK papers give CD's away regularly. When I was over there I got new CD's by a number of bands that way. It's a gimmick to getting them to #1 and also reveals the secret that these CD's don't cost that much to make. Instead of marketing traditionally they just take the marketing cost by giving it away. Not just superstar bands either. It's quite clever because it gets people, like my Dad, to listen to music that they would never have bought.

Just did a quick check and they had Robbie Williams greatest hits free last weekend :)

Here's an article on how well the Prince thing worked http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0 ... 27,00.html

His previous album sold 80k in the UK this one "sold" 3 million and he was paid for every one the same amount the record company would have paid him + 10% more.
0 x

david claridge
new to this board
new to this board
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:00 pm

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by david claridge » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:38 am

Thanks for the encouraging comments about my first Reaper- based song. My other recordings are on my Zoom, and way back before that, I had a hobby of collecting tape hiss, on a tascam 4 track!!!

A bit about the song which may explain the Italian stuff- the Present Mrs Claridge and I were on holiday and visited a stately home near Padstow. The guide told us about a painting that had been commisioned in Italy circa 1720- the female Italian artist had falllen in love with her subject, but could not tell him, so sealed a letter in the frame. It wasn't found for nearly 200 years!!! By that time- they both looked pretty bad :-)
So that's why I put the italian stuff at teh beginning, end, and a middle section of music trying to portray a busy Italian piazza (as opposed to busy Italian Pizza!!)

Re. Vocals panning- I panned them by clicking on the track, and changing it in Audition, saved the changes, then brought back to Reaper. Problem was, way later on I though it was a bit much- too wide, but there was no way back. But I what I love about music is the ability to do anything you want.

I had a lot more instruments in the mix, but stripped them out- it was too crowded.

Thanks for all your comments- glad you liked.

Cheers,
David
0 x
Gear-
Reaper, Podfarm, various VSTs, takamine acoustic, resonator, fender kahler strat, westone bass, Yamaha Explorer drums, AKG 1000s mic, tanglewood 12 string, Ovation Uke, swanny whistle, kazoo, egg shaker, stylophone, 1 litre of bacardi, family size bag of Minstrels, a converted garage now called SHABBEY ROAD, 1 understanding wife (with low mileage).............

A Glimpse of Heaven

tonyoci
The Force
The Force
Posts: 8225
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:20 am
Location: Morgan Hill, CA

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by tonyoci » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:05 pm

But David, there was a way back. IF you panned them left in Audition then pan the track right in Reaper (or make it mono) and it would be back in the middle. Unless I am miunderstanding you.
0 x

lucas
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 1725
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: someplace else

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by lucas » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:37 am

songs
Les Cotton and Bjorn Niellsen - The Day That Comes
really liked his voice
well done
hmm... what's that band... Cruzados?

David Claridge - Portrait
sorry, what was the problem with this again?
very nice, well done

Roy in La Mesa, CA - Floatin'
oooooo.. SoCal crunchy!
awesome!
spread that jam!
wait a minute, dude, are you in the Navy or the Coast Guard?
just kidding :D
good tune!

* Tape style edits in the digital form
cool, lucas got a mention
hey, I know that guy, I'll let him know, he'll listen this week for sure. ;)

it's definitely much easier to make seamless edits when working withthe separate tracks instead of the two track mix.
that way you can let some parts flow over the edit point and make it appear seamless.
fades are not always necessary.
I seem to remember just bumping some of the parts to Tony's song right up against each other.
I believe I may have done that in Mixcraft 4.
I don't miss that DAW at all. :D

click or pops are sometimes due to tiny gaps in the edit instead of artifacts generated from the edit
important to zoom all the way in sometimes.

* Dave, hopefully, plays a segment on recording his XTC show
doesn't Cracks do this for his shows?
mic in the room is clearer but lacks bass
who's singing?
voice has good attitude
good woo woos!
LOL

BTW, strummy dummy? very funny (or should that be 'interesting'? :) )

Lyrics
does anyone know what Shock the Monkey is about?

Good show!
0 x

criddlerus
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 826
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:16 pm
Contact:

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by criddlerus » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:41 am

lucas wrote:* Dave, hopefully, plays a segment on recording his XTC show
doesn't Cracks do this for his shows?
mic in the room is clearer but lacks bass
who's singing?
voice has good attitude
good woo woos!
LOL
Yeah, the original recording with the internal mics on the H4 did have a certain charm about it. The other is clearer but much less bassy.

That would be me singing lead and my partner in crime Jude singing backup on that one. Thanks!

Signed,
The Strummy Dummy.
0 x

davecooper
been here a while
been here a while
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:55 am

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by davecooper » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:58 pm

:lol:

That day comes

Sounds a lot like REM - very good production and excellent guitar work.


David Claridge - Portrait

I like the nice guitar work in the verses - the vocals complement the backing.

A good song for me. Good ending.

I sometimes use the titles of books my wife reads or change it around to suit.

I'm pleased you didn't say a song title from the present day British charts - can be one from the past?

Roy in La Mesa, CA - Floatin'

Good rocking tune - good hook -again like the guitar work - good vocals and over excellent song.
0 x

Kerry Penley
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Extreme Southwest Virginia
Contact:

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by Kerry Penley » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:21 pm

I've been listening and have had some thoughts on the last several shows, but it takes me a long time to write them out properly (so I guess I've been lazy about posting)...

About using "already-used" titles for songs...that made me think of two Motels songs (for the "youngins", The Motels were a new-wavish 80's band with an very nice-voiced lead singer named Martha Davis)...They had two hits called "Remember the Nights" and "Suddenly, Last Summer" that I later noticed (via TV Guide) were also names of old (maybe 40's - 60's period) movies...I also would bet that their big hit "Only the Lonely can Play" was also the name of an old movie (but I'm not sure). I guess a lot of thought goes into naming a movie...so one can take advantage of all that metal labor toward coining a catchy phrase and make it a catchy chorus of a song...don't know if this is helpful, just thinking all kinds of "artistic"-type titles (movies, TV shows, books,paintings) might make good song titles.

P.S. I just remember Pat Benatar had a song called "Wuthering Heights" (spelling?) that was also the name of a book/movie, and Don Mclean's "Stary, Stary Night" was the name of a painting (I think).
Last edited by Kerry Penley on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

tonyoci
The Force
The Force
Posts: 8225
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:20 am
Location: Morgan Hill, CA

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by tonyoci » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:49 pm

Wasn't Kate Bush the one with Wuthering Heights, that was a direct story from the book.

My next song will be called "Transformers 2: Revenge of the Machines"
0 x

Kerry Penley
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Extreme Southwest Virginia
Contact:

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by Kerry Penley » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:13 pm

tonyoci wrote:Wasn't Kate Bush the one with Wuthering Heights, that was a direct story from the book.

My next song will be called "Transformers 2: Revenge of the Machines"
After thinking about this a bit, maybe my thoughts about taking titles from other works is so obvious/widespread that it might not need to be stated. I did wikepedia "Suddenly, Last Summer" and found a connection, but more likely to a play than a movie (or maybe both/or neither were involved in inspiring the song). Tennessee Williams wrote a play with that name (which later became a film in the late 50's with Catherine Hepburn). The Motels recorded the song just after his death in 1983. (The Wikipedia entry suggested a connection to Williams death/play, but a quote from The Motels' Martha Davis neither confirmed or denied the connection).

I'm sure Pat Benatar had an early 80's song called "Wuthering Heights" but Kate Bush (who I've heard of but don't know very much about) could very well have used the title earlier.

You joke about the "Transformer" title, but it makes me think that many movies today already use their movie title in song, so that avenue of "idea-stealing" is less available in modern times. Also it would be more obvious that a title was "stolen" from a current movie compared to taking a title from an old/obscure/forgotten movie... "Revenge of the Machines" is an interesting title for a song (makes me think of "Transformer Man" by Neil Young - notice I was "indoctrinated" into music in the earyly 80's).
0 x

lucas
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 1725
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: someplace else

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by lucas » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:19 pm

'Only the Lonely' is Roy Orbison song.
while not a direct lift of a title, it's close enough to give the Motels title that familar heard it before feel.
0 x

galbavy
new to this board
new to this board
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: soakin in cider

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by galbavy » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:35 am

the song potrait had an awesome vocal sound.

Daves h4 original recording had some bass punch and no high end. and then the other method did just the opposite.
cant you run all the mics at once? if you mixed the two sounds it would have a full sound to it.

agree to an extent on the lyrics. i remeber listening to Judas Priest and singing along. then i read the lyrics. and was thinkin wow i totally had guessed what he was singing wrong. and i thought the lyrics were actually kinda dumb. lol. but i loved the song so it didnt matter.

peace out
G
0 x

voclizr
The Force
The Force
Posts: 5878
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:57 pm

Re: HMHS 177 - Stress (10/9/09)

Post by voclizr » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:19 am

Tony & Dave;
Just a note to think you for the Tape Edit segment. I guess I've been lucky. I haven't gotten any "blips" yet. :D

Great job on the music this week. All the tunes were great!

I was going to send you another tune in response to your needing more songs, but I'm probably one of the same group of people you keep receiving them from. Besides, you've played me twice this year, so I'll be gracious and let some others have a chance to be heard. ;)

Thanks so much for playing me this year, and thanks for your great show.

:D
0 x
John B
Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitors.
Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
NI Session Strings, Vintage Organs & Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Garritan JABB 3, Toontrack EZ Keys & EZ Drummer 2, Trillan Bass Module, Arturia DX7 V FM synthesizer

My Soundclick
My Bandcamp

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest