Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

www.homemadehitshow.com thanks.


More home songwriting and recording goodness from your hosts Mr David Criddle and Ms Tony Butterworth.

This week we discuss

* Tony 39 Album Reviews http://su.pr/1EFwjX
* Vocal Mics
* Not knowing what your song is about
* Dave relearning his songs for a live show
* Black Francis (being the correct name)
* Dave fixes his drums, http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music
* What we've been listening to. Tony: Lightspeed Champion. Dave: Message to Burma

This weeks songs:

* David Cooper - Long Long Ago
* Grandma Melonhead - Perfect World
* The Tones - Singer Songwriter

Lighspeed Champion Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DeLTU5nLk

Mission Of Burma Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tY9owV0wk

sorry about the weird stereo on my intro. I actually couldnt figure out what was causing that (it wasnt there at mixdown but was there on plyback!?).

Dave, do you think that the reason that an SM57 or 8 can sound better than a condensor is just that it hides things because of its lack of high frequency detail? The trouble I seem to have with mics is getting the vocal to cut through the mix. It wasnt clear in my intro but I did not record "perfect world" with the 58 -- rather that song led me to record a couple of things subsequently with a 58. With my studio-projects mics I usually have to eq in a lot at 2 or 3k and then maybe use a bit of distortion. The 58 seems to give my voice more oomph by itself.

Tony, Bono famously will never use anything other than a 58 on stage or in the studio. I think he brings it with him the same way that mariah carey brings her 7000 dollar neuman with her to recording sessions (only his mic is only worth 100 bucks)
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I'll post back again after I have a chance to give the show a good listen.

Well, the SM58 is a dynamic mic and has a very specific response curve that has a very bold midrange. The condenser mics have a more scooped sound in general. Condensers can be better if you are singing really quiet and will catch more of the breath and nuances of your singing. A dynamic (and specifically the SM58/57) will be more "meaty" and give you a more "solid" sound. I am sure the pre-amp plays into this as well. I have had tough times getting my condenser mic to not sound so brittle on vocals.

Getting a good vocal sound is a tough thing sometimes. You can definitely get a good sound from Condenser mics obviously. Experimenting and comparing your sound to pro sounds may be the answer. I also hear you should sing a little further from a condenser mic than most of us do. That would bring in the need for room treatment or putting up some blankets.

I think a segment is in order.

Dave

Hey One of my favorite pal ol' Grandma! I'll be talking with you more this week via email, but as to the mic subject; All of the above is quite correct. The SM is the work horse of many live and studio cats. I've tried it on my vocals and just hated it. It can mask things a bit which would certainly make up for lack of talent in my case, but it happens to emphasize the nasal qualities of my voice with that kick in the mids (actually according to sure about 4-6k but I feel it rise 1-3k) right where the male human voice tends to sit. I become nasalman! I prefer a mic that has a bit of an upper mid hump and some open clarity at the top end of the spectrum. The good old SM57 has a bump up around 6-8k which may be another good choice. But other things can become problems as Tony mentioned. Condensers are quite a bit more sensitive and yep distort much easier. As well if you get close to some of them you run into the proximity effect or as it is sometimes called bass tip-up which is another form of distortion in directional mics.(which can happen with the SM to lesser a degree) Things get real bottom heavy which can be good if you've got a thin voice but not so good if you are one of the soggy bottom boys. Oddly I've found your computer mic Grandma is kinda cool on your voice. Not mention the eerie hard drive noise.
Take care guys

Yeah, I quite like the built in mic on my laptop and have used it on at least 2 songs that I have sent to the homemade hit show. It always cuts through. I read an interview with some producer somewhere who said that he always records voices with both a good condenser and a cheap dictation mic at the same time. That way he can mix them as he pleases later. Makes sense to me. I would do that except I have no way to combine my laptop mic with anything else.

Note: Listened and typed up comments in Word, so no spell check or icons.

David Cooper - Long Long Ago – Cool fade in. I like a good fade in. Neat synthy sound.
Good lyrics too.

Tony 39 Album Reviews http://su.pr/1EFwjX - A good album review is somewhat of an art, it seems to me.

Black Francis (being the correct name) – Never heard of them. I’ve heard of the Pixies.

I watched The Whites Stripes movie. That was a pretty good movie. I also saw a movie on Patti Smith. I never did get Patti Smith. Still don’t.

Dave relearning his songs for a live show – Dave, I have experienced much of the same thing when I practice for my limited live stuff. I am currently trying to
Re-learn my songs on keyboard for possible live performances. I am finding the many of the songs are rather bare on the keys. It works on some songs but on some I am finding I have to try and add some kind of bridge or something extra. I may never play them live on the keyboard, but it’s keeping me practicing.

Tony, I thought of recording live (in my basement, one take), but I am afraid of timing issues. They would be glaring if I were off, which is very likely.

Dave fixes his drums – Sounds good Dave.

Grandma Melonhead - Perfect World – Very good recording. Wild ride musically and lyrically. I like it.

Not knowing what your song is about – It is very hard to write a good song that no one knows what it is about. Grandma did a good job at it. I don’t know
If I could pull it off.

Vocal Mics – I use one mic, the SP-1. (Two if you count the PS-04, which I used to love, but haven’t use much lately, beyond recording live performances.)

What we've been listening to. Tony: Lightspeed Champion. Dave: Message to Burma – Most bands fall into the “had enough after six songs or so” category for me. I had that same feeling while watching the White Stripes movie. I love their process, but 50% of their songs fall just short for me. It’s the other 50% that keeps me coming back to them.

I don’t know how interesting my comments are, but I do enjoy listening and commenting on the different points.

“bouncy” – I saw the title and I imagined the new song would be slow, acoustic, and introspective. Now my ears are really perking up. Drums and piano too! That’s a good story about “wailing away” in the car.

The Tones - Singer Songwriter – Nice piano riff at the beginning. Yea, that riff is being carried throughout. That’s good. That’s a well written song. It is bouncy.
I would call the song sparse, musically speaking. I kept waiting for it to really kick in, but it never did. That worked because it made me focus more on the lyrics and
Vocal delivery, which, along with that great piano lick, were the main focuses of the song, it seems to me. Good one.

Dave, I'm listening to "Natural Disaster". Man, that's some good guitar playing. This puts me in mind of the 80's type songs from the Eagles or Joe Walsh. I'm not sure why, but it's a good thing in my mind. Good one.

I miss the icons. Maybe you can put them in afterword. You can also type them in as words. ex: ": music :" but delete the spaces and it becomes



I am finding the problem is getting my bandmates to spend the time to embrace the song and come up with parts. It is funny. With the cover shows like the Bowie and XTC they spent all kinds of time learning parts and practicing but with our original shows they come into practice without having gone over the songs at home at all.

Thanks for the comments on Natural Disaster. That was a fun one to record!

Dave

David Cooper - Long Long Ago I'll have to critisise our hosts for putting such a slow song at the start... it made sleepy... Nice vibe.

Dave's firesale fix Finally, I can listen to the entire song...

Grandma Melonhead - Perfect World "I think I'm gonna be a boy, will you be my girl" is a strange hook, which really works. Queer, meant as a positive.

Writing lyrics that you don't know what they are about. It's a scale, isn't it? I've written songs that I know what they are about, but it's something that can't necessarily be captured in words, so you try to give images that will trigger the same feeling in the listener.

SM58 In a segment on The Home Recording Show, it was claimed that Paul McCartney does all his vocals with an SM58. It seems the only way is to try some different mics and use the one you like.

The Tones - Singer Songwriter There's a seed of a real summer hit here. I can imagine that piano hook playing from every beach radio around you.

David Cooper - Long Long Ago. Relaxing mellow groove here Dave, very nice to chill out to. I like the reflective ambience and it suits the whole theme of ooking back. In fact, when you try to picture the image of people long since gone then there's a really strong atmosphere. This would work well on a video of changing images of what you were looking at. Good work.

* Vocal Mics. I like SM 58s and use one live. In my homestudio I have a Red 5 Audio, RV6 budget large diaphragm condenser. The condenser was not too expensive (cheaper than the SM 58 I recall) and I rate it - it cuts through the mix I suppose.
http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Condensor_Mics.html

* Not knowing what your song is about. I always set out with a meaning, in fact I tend towards narrative songs quite a lot. I could write a load of garbage, claim it had hiddden depths, then accuse the listener of not having the intellect to understand me. "The king is on the altogether, the altogether, the altogether...". I'll happily obscure a meaning if I think that it's too obvious, it is perhaps a a good thing to place a burden of interpreatation on the listener - otherwise the danger is of being too bland. In fact I've just recorded a song called 'Gravity' which is a bit obscure. Thing is, I knew what it was about when I started but 'gravity' seemed a difficult metaphor to shape. I'll send it you.

* Dave relearning his songs for a live show. Empathy, I use a lyric sheet. It's annoying for my audience when they request one I wrote and I have to explain that I don't know it.

Grandma Melonhead - Perfect World. I like how you depressed the 'weird button' here and held it down. Eclectic and experimental certainly and I don't get what its about. Parts of this sound like earl;y David Bowie doing traditional Russian folk music whilst high on something dangerous - but then again it's quite different from that too. Well done Grandmother.


* Dave fixes his drums. I liked this song but I couldn't really spot what was wrong with the drums.

The Tones - Singer Songwriter. A very strong vocal performance right from the start, well sung. The piano part sounds firm enough, I dread putting piano on as it always sounds shaky to my ears. Have you had lessons or is trial and error? You seem to be disparaging of singer songwriters as the middle aged retreat of a once youthful rebel. If ever you feel that way just type Johnny Rotten in YouTube and wait for your toes to curl. BTW he advertises butter in the UK these days. I expect he makes the case he's being ironic.

A few months of lessons as 10yo followed by on and off playing over the years is all I ever had piano wise.

For reasons I can't explain I am more creative when writing on a keyboard, even though I am simply a rhythm pianist.

I had the melody for this song for around 3 weeks before I recorded it and though If finished some of the lyrics late I was well practiced by the time I recorded it.

Thanks all.

Ello.

Just wanted to add to the comments on this latest show - with all of which I entirely agree - with my utter admiration of the eclecticity (it's now a word, cos it's on the internet) of Grandma Melonhead's track. The bass on the chorus was v. v. deep... something of a rarity on the HMHS. I see this as a challenge... I fully intend to submit at least three songs this year, one of which will be a real floorshaker

I have an old, battered SM58 but I never use it. Must give it a go. I really have no idea what microphone suits my voice - I like my Rode NT1-A.. in fact, I'm a little disappointed that I spent a couple of hundred quid on a Beyer MCE90, but only use it occasionally for speech. Might try it on a guitar. Hm...

Tony, interesting comment regarding songwriting on the keyboard. I think (not entirely sure yet) that I too am more creative on the keyboard. I remember an interview where Mick Jagger discussed how he writes songs using several methods (guitar, keyboard, drum beats) and that they all result in a different type of song. I'm finding that to be true too. There is something about being able to sing over top of one sustained strummed chord on an electric guitar as opposed to singing a melody line over a series of chords on the keyboard. I am finding that there are things I can do on the piano that I can't do on guitar, and visa-versa. I think that's what Mick meant. Here is link to that interview, by the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nlvzVrqV9c

FINALLY get a slice of time to post something up here.

Dave Cooper - awesome to hear another tune of yours up here. Yes, nice and mellow. Was anything panned in the middle on this? Very cool stereo spread on the song.

Grandma ... that was fun. Yeah, really a lot o' bottom end on this tune. Love the variety - I was getting images of me stumbling through a house of mirrors while listening to it.

Tony - great vocal performance and some catchy hooks. Thought it could be sped up a bit. The only thing that threw me for a loop was the breaks between vocal lines - thought it might drive the tune better without those. Just my opinion tho... Great tune!

Writing a song about nothing - jeez, I have trouble thinking of even something to write about. I can usually come up with grooves, melody, harmony, what have you, but it's hard for me to come up with a "topic". Sometimes I do it, but more often than not, the subject of the song comes after I've put the skeleton/straw man song together. Things get added, changed or taken away as words get put in. I know I'm odd. A perfect example is the song I'm "working on" right now (you know the one Tony ) - I've got some good bones, but have no idea what the meat is going to be like...

Cheers! D

Singer/songwriter
I really liked "Singer/songwriter". Bouncing and clever. Very nice break. It fit the song perfectly. Good vocal. It did drag just a little and speeding it up might have helped. Likewise, a stronger delineation between the sections might do the trick by itself. Say by adding another instrument to certain sections only.

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Perfect world and meaning
Just because I didn't write that song with a meaning in mind doesn't mean it doesn't have meaning. You cant really string words together without any meaning. Unconcious meaning is bound to slip out and then the listener cant help but to assign meaning as well even if it is just mood.

Dave Chick, I don't find your lyrical approach odd at all. An organic approach to lyrics can yield great results.

Over the past few years, lyrics have been a struggle for me. And when I come up with a bit of music I just want to sing it, so I just sing the first things that occur to me. Later on I try to massage those into presentable lyrics and surprisingly it works some of the time. Before I was a dad, I used to keep books of jottings as well as interesting found words handy. I would even pick up an installation manual or a newspaper and read it out to the melody. Nowadays I just don't have the fekin head space.

SM58
One thing I don’t like about the SM58 is that it doesn't work well with this way that I like to process my vocals, which is this: I make a send and on the send I high-pass above 5k and then compress that to death. Mixed back in, this sounds a bit like an exciter but better, I think. On the 58, though, it sounds harsh. I guess you're making a lot out of too little (of high frequency information).

Hey guys

I must admit I have known about the show for years now, and just never got around to downloading....

I was big fan of the HRO show and I think I would not have been able to make my first album had it not been for the things I learned on that show.

As for the homemade hit show...

I am just now coming out of a songwriting slump having not really written anything in almost a year... I blamed it on not having my favorite writing tool, that being a laptop computer (I have lousy handwriting) Good news is that I was able to find a machine again and am back to writing more songs! I traded an amp I had for a baby Taylor guitar and have made that my "sitting at the computer" guitar.

The homemade hitshow on my iPod makes my day job go by a lot faster and the conversation has given me the encouragement I need to get back into the studio and press the big red button! I hope to have some songs to send in this summer at the latest. (gotta have my firepod fixed up)

Please keep the show going as it keeps me from losing my focus at work and helps to pass the time until I can get back in the studio and write more music with my wife.

Caleb.

* David Cooper - Long Long Ago
Nice mellow tune. Well done.

* Tony 39 Album Reviews http://su.pr/1EFwjX
I read most of them. Funny stuff, but not too many that are worth listening to based on your reviews.

* Black Francis
(Dave is correct, but don't tell Tony)

* Dave relearning his songs for a live show
I used to play all my songs over and over, but these days there's probably only one or two I can remember by heart.

* Dave fixes his drums, http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music
Finally! By the way, a millisecond is a thousandth of a second, so 3 milliseconds is .003 seconds, not .03. Amazing what the human ear and brain can perceive. Sounds much better in the fixed version.

* Grandma Melonhead - Perfect World
Classic Grandma Melonhead sound. Love it. Your stuff is always fun and creative and just plain good. This one reminded me of the Doors in an odd way.

* Vocal Mics
Yup.

* The Tones - Singer Songwriter
I like this one. I don't miss the solo. Good solid pop song.

Great show gents.