Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

Here's the original post from the show 198 thread, after which I'll do post with links to the unmastered original so others can take a crack at this:
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For the benefit of Mr. Kite society at large I've done a test drive of the T-Racks suite (not just the EQ I linked above, the full version 3.1.1 Mastering suite, a mere $500).

For those who wish to download (patiently) and listen (patiently), here are two versions of the same mix:
Version 1: Master effects are Acoustica reverb and compressor, the latter set to function as a limiter with Auto Gain.
Version 2: Master effects are the same Acoustica reverb, plus the T-Racks suite, set to a preset called "gentle sweetener #1", nothing tweaked. This is an EQ, compressor, and brick wall limiter.

[FYI, this song is made up of samples that come with Mixcraft. There are some additional effects and automation on individual tracks, but I won't bore you with the details.]

I'll let you draw your own conclusions, but here are mine. I like what T-Racks is doing to the mix, it is indeed more pleasing to the ear, making the original sound a little "flat" by comparison, but that brickwall limiter is out of control. Repeated listenings of the second mix quickly induce listener fatigue. The first thing I'd do to tweak this preset is take the limiter way down. I'd do so now, but I've used up all my day's ambition already.
[A little coffee later]
Ok, here is
Version 3: Same as 2 except I fixed the compression and limiter settings so they don't suck quite as much. This is still way more compressed then it should be, but it's way better than version 2 to my ears.

Now I'm actually going to read the damned manual.

And now, YOU TOO can waste time trying to master this mess. I've uploaded a mix with no mastering, including reverb on the master channel, so you might want to add some. Toss one whatever else you want. Compression, EQ, Limiter. Master this puppy and post the results to drop box or similar.

Here are the files as both a high quality MP3, or for those with extreme downloading patience, a WAV file.

Good luck!

And for the terminally confused, I suggest right clicking and then downloading the linked file. In Firefox it's "Save Link As":

Are you under the impression that it's 1995 ?? That's only a 14mb file that took around 30 seconds to download

To use that famous phrase - No Disrespect Intended - which is always followed by disrespect. Both of those mastering versions sound horrible. I admit to wearing some bass enhancing headphones but they are horribly loud and distorted. Listening to the original I can hear that it's bassy but it sounds much better. Maybe it's the MP3 compression ??

This is a tough one to master. It is so dense. #3 definitely sounds better than #2. It is tough to master it so that it isn't just an assault on you.

Thanks for spending the time to lay these out. I may give mastering a shot...

Here is my version. I used all Reaper plugins plus the WideBug free stereo widener plugin from BetaBugs. I think the most significant thing that I did was to brighten it up a bit with ReaFir eq. I also added a touch of 50hz to give it more boom without mud and I cut some around 500hz to remove some tubbiness. Let me know what you think.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1537556/HateFearLies-Criddle.mp3

Plugin Order was:

WideBug (set at +5)
ReaFIR EQ (+8db at 60hz, -3db wide at 400hz, +3db shelf at 12khz)
LOSER/SP1LimiterJS (-1.2 Threshold)

As I said, the EQ was the biggest change.


Dave

I agree, very difficult to master since it's so dense and there is no space as it is. I've done my versions which are taking a while to upload. PSP Vintage Warmer wins by a mile for me though simply using the free George Young Limiter had a similar feel. Ozone just seems to have made it all thin and tinny.

This example might be better served with a more sparse like track.

I'll post examples once they finish uploading etc.

Here's one big zip file of everything linked below
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/MasteringExamples.zip

Here's the files

01 is Ozone 4 Band Rock mix including EQ, Loudness Max, Harmonic Exciter, Multiband dynamics, Multiband Stero imaging
02 is Ozone "MixMaster" including EQ, Loudness Max, Harmonic Exciter, Multiband Dynamics
03 is Ozone "4 Band Less Mud" including EQ, Loudness Max, Harmonic Exciter, Multiband dynamics, Multiband Stereo imaging

I don't really like any of the Ozone versions

04 is PSP Vintage Warmer "Finalize Mix 1" preset

05 is simply using the George Young Limiter to raise the volume

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... k4Band.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... %20%20.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... essMud.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... es_PSP.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... imiter.mp3

After a quick listen I would say I liked Dave's version the best.

Here's a with and without master of my 1 minute song Ugly Joe. It might server a better example for mastering

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/UglyJoe_NoMastering.wav
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/UglyJoe_WithMaster.wav

Maybe we need to send something to those online mastering services that often do a song or a minute for free.

OK, I never know when to stop

Here is Ugly Joe mastered the same 5 ways. They all sound better but again I like the PSP with the limiter only not being far off.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... k4Band.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... %20%20.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... essMud.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... oe_PSP.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/Masteri ... imiter.mp3


and one big Zip file of everything
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1330792/MasteringExamples.zip

Tony, I played your PSP vintage warmer version. It's not hitting the top of the VU at all, it's as though you capped the mix a few DB below 0. (by contrast, Dave's mix was peaking all over the place, also not good). Dave's probably sounds better to you because it's louder. I'd go back and look at your settings.

I listened to the K-band version, same problem, except even worse. It's no where near the 0db mark. Something isn't right.

I think "better" was the word you were searching for.

I did a lot of EQ on my mix and also used a lot of stereo widener. It made a lot of changes to the fundamental sound in addition to it being louder.

My meters in Reaper were stopped at 0db. Were you seeing peaks higher than 0? The average sound was really hot though.

As a general rule, you should set your peak just below 0db. If set to 0db, you can still get clipping. I use -0.2db or -0.3db. Tony apparently likes to use -20db. Not sure what's going on there.

I have to admit, I do not like the widening. I'd like to hear your version without that. It leaves a big sonic hole in the middle, it's odd.

Mastering has always been a contentious subject around here, remember that whole Matbio thing where it blew up

I have Reaper set to default track levels to -6 and I forgot to change that during the 11 minutes I spent on this. I've updated everything now.

I am seeing Dave's track popping above zero on a number of spots, my vintage warmer one does not but it has way less dynamic range mostly peaking all the way through, but look at the missing middle in Dave's file, there's a great big slice out of the middle of the image.

Here, there, and everywhere. There are many who will say, what we're doing isn't really "mastering." There are those who say, you can't do mastering without a properly tuned room, the right speakers, the right equipment, etc. To which I say, ok, fine. But I have to do a final step with the mix to make it sound better, and I'm going to call that step mastering, so that's that.

As for the how to go about doing this final step, much discussion there too. At minimum I think everyone should do a little compression/limiting (with auto gain) on the final mix to tame the peaks and boost the overall volume of the song. I frequently find the mix needs some reverb as well to glue it all together. I doubt many would argue with that (but perhaps I'll be surprised )

I never add reverb to the final mix

That's because you actually take the time to add it to individual tracks. I'm too lazy to be bothered with that.

geez, this is what I get for not perusing the forum for a couple of days...

This looks like fun for sure!

Sort of depends which plug-in you're using, but you can get into the 0dB range as the plugins usually process things at 32bit internally (64 if you're into that jazz) and will account for the hard ceiling at 0dB. Some plugins will behave like their analogue counterparts and have a delay on the attack time - thus introducing clipping, but most of the stuff like the loudness section in Ozone and the BW limiter in T-Racks will account for that and allow you to peak at dB.


Still, it's a good rule to follow - setting your output limit to be -0.2 or -0.3