Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

Enjoyed this show as always!

I found all songs to be an enjoyable listen, the only thing that stuck out at me with the remix was just how thin the vocal sounded, there was no depth to the track at all... Just a mid rangy sort of lofi sound...

I think so far my favorite song was the one about hanging at the forum... I hope to be more active on this forum this summer but right now I barely have time to sleep let alone work on much music.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY

Well done Tony and Dave. Crack open the champagne.

The Splinters - The Game Of Lying
I always liked the 80s electro pop, ever heard of the Yellow Magic Orchestra? They've dated now but at the time they blew me and my padded shoulders away. This captures the genre sound really well. I liked this a lot. Well done especially as this stuff sounds really trticky to pull off, detailed and everything. Good call.

The Buzzcocks Mancpunk. I always though his voice was a bit thin and high. Guess I'm just jealous. Dave out buzzed 'em. Hey, I could have done the vocals on that for you! I'm from Manchester, got the accent and everything, Les Cotton could duet it with me, he's from round the corner.

Lucas - Hanging At The Forum
Loved it, Just think how gutted you'd be if you didn't get a mensch? But I did like the poking fun at what we do here, it's good not to take yourself too seriously. It is an odd activity, checking in to see if that a conversation that takse your interest. Don't we just love techie and gear threads? Thanks for this song Lucas, its a good celebration of what we do.

The Pocket Gods - Come On England
This is song is really raising an issue that is always there. The USA is not the rest of the world, if you take my meaning. How much of a fuss is the World Cup in the USA? Your first game is against us! Is the USA aware that the rest of the planet will grind to a halt during this festival? Is the USAs involvement generating any interest/excitiement? You gotta tell us American cousins. I'd love your take on the whole thing.


Alas, Gary's crimes have robbed us of the glories of the 'Glitter canon'. I liked him when I was a kid. Not as much as he would have liked me I guess.

Gravity. Me
The thing that strikes me listening to my vocals now is 'how did I ever consider that finished?' My solution would be (and is) to re-do the vocals (taking Dave's advice to get into the mic). I am stunned that you managed to clean up the vocals... And this I really want an answer to. You spoke of giving the vocals more room. So. Panning other things away from the vocals (in the centre) will achieve this? I always think my recordings lack space. I take the point one poster made that you have given them a certain distance, and they are less immediate, the original was more Lennon - the Shaved Fish album(?).

I really like your mix Tony, you've given it the polish I strive for but seem not to get. On that note I've been experimenting with EZMix. I did it on the train (ooo errr madame) and haven't heard the outcome of my work yet. I'm working towards a new CD. Most of the songs are there but need finishing. One task will be new vocal takes - especially if Dave's advice makes a big difference. You should see how far back I stand sometimes!

I much prefer your version Tone. But I have to know how you panned this. I put vocals and bass centre, acoustic guitar out wide at 100R and 100L (stereo I think) And what this talk of stereo V mono? Did my track sound mono? How did I do that? How do I undo it?

Interesting experiemnt here and I appreciate what you've done, it's that learning thing.

Jay Regain - Motherearth
I like the mellow major 7th chord (I think, could be a minor) that comes in the verse, it adds a nice emotional hit to that line. Its all good, especially I must pick on the harmonies, judicious and sweet. Great keys here too, you can't bluff the real keyboard player sound I reckon. Good build up to the finale, I wouldn't say it was very prog rock, it is a bit, its the orchestra doing that!

Good show guys. Enjoy the cake.

Polly I think the project is in the Dropbox folder with all my changes so you can take a look.

Your mix was very mono, the instruments did not sound panned at all. It was also a touch distorted. Now posts here and emails tell me that people liked your mix so don't be too hard on yourself. I am not sure this is 100% the mix I would have done myself, I just wanted to do as much as I could the opposite of what you did to make the differences really stand out. Most of what I do is trial and error but the way I give vocals more rooms is.

1. Pan other things away
2. Move them 4-5% off center, no idea why I do this but I do
3. I give them a notch in an eq area, maybe 1.5khz, just a small boost, then I cut everything else a little at that same point
4. The delay and reverb I add also probably makes a difference

I am not sure I really cleaned up the vocals, I just processed them and, to some ears, thinned them out too much though I thought I had thickened them up.

It was a fun experiment anyway.

Hey Polly - I may just take you up on that. I loves me my britpop. It would be fun to have a real Manchester-ite singing on them.



I think you will find stepping closer is going to make a huge difference. Why don't you do some test recordings and send me the results and I can give them a listen and hopefully help you out. If you are more than about 2 inches from the mic you are going to get a huge amount of room sound that just won't go away.

In home recording, I find it best to have as little room as possible. If you DO want the room sound in there, then pick a good sounding room and make it part of your sound but I don't think most people really want that. You probably want to record as dry as possible and add reverb with a plugin.

I will be glad to listen to the raw tracks and give your some feedback, ideas and opinions. We will give you a "home recording makeover"

Recording is a learning process and we are all constantly trying to learn how to do it better.

Dave

I'm usually 8 - 10 inches away.



I may well take you up on that. Especially with a new song. I got one I hope to start on asap - though I intend it to be quite a simple affair.

I panned identical guitar tracks left and right - is that going to give a mono effect overall?

I'll try and get into the drop box.

Thanks

I think panning identical guitars works as less than mono, it gives a phase effect that removes sound. don't know how that works but that's what I've read. If you offset one by a few millseconds then it resolves this but still doesn't really give you the full effect you are after. Using a stereo delay or using different tracks (versions of the same one or something different) works well.

I didn't know this. I gotta take a serious loom at my stuff for the next CD. At least I know now.

Don't get overwhelmed Polly. Just take one step at a time. Start with trying to improve your vocal sound. I think we can whip you into shape, if that is what you want.

Congratulations on the 200th Show!!

Filling the gaps in your head
I think I tend to always pull the vocals down because my brain fills in the fuzzy parts and makes them seem too loud.
Also, I knew I had heard it so much that I had lost perspective on the mix.
That's why I sent it to tony, to get an objective view of it.
and always I think there's something wrong with my bass (but that's probably just my fingers).

The contest winner (you have to listen to know if you won)
go Dave!
congrats!

Dave's Buzzcocks tune
this is one of those bands I know about but can never remember what they do.
Then someone says 'they play that song blah, blah, blah..' and I remember.
it's always been that, so it's not just an age issue for me.

Tony remixes John Poulton's Gravity
that's funny, I thought the intro was the remix for minute.
I was thinking, no way...

like the remix better.
a better balance of the elements.
mixing with Headphones
I've actually reversed my mix process and now get the basic mix on the monitors and PC speakers first, then listen on the headphones.
not sure the end result is better, but it seems to go much quicker for me.
Stereo Guitars
Polly, recording a guitar track twice will give you a much better stereo results than using a single track and trying to 'fake' it.
sames goes with using 2 different guitars for the track or at least 2 different pickup settings.
do a couple of test recordings and see for yourself.

Dave has been listening to New Pornographers and Kraftwerk
just listened to Computer World and Electric Cafe a couple of weeks ago

This weeks songs:
The Splinters - The Game Of Lying
ooohhh.. '80's techno!
double plus on the name change

Lucas - Hanging At The Forum
Thanks for playing the song.
Glad to see it being well received and understood as just a bit of fun.
hopefully anyone who thinks they're not listed will realize that their username is the one that's a bit muffled...

The Pocket Gods - Come On England
oh, dig that chorus.

Jay Regain - Motherearth
dunno.. for some reason makes me think of Badfinger

Band Of Horses
song didn't grab me, but the sound and the mix seemed really good for 'live' on a TV show.
seemed like a good band though

New Pornographers
while I always enjoy watching acrobats and martial arts, I was ultimately left unsatisfied.
while the song had some interesting elements, again, I was left feeling it wasn't quite there as a song or as the soundtrack for the video.

No time for comments this time round but I wanted to say Happy 200th, gentlemen. Well done!
Re: "Come On, England"-- all I will say is if you lot beat France (preferably as a result of a blatant handball), Anglo-Irish relations will be considerably advanced.
Speaking of the World Cup, why didn't we do a World Cup song challenge?

(a) Because we 80% American
(b) We didn't think of it

Duplicating a track and panning it gives that phase effect if you're listening on speakers and start moving your head around in the stereo field - you'll start getting the comb-filtering as the two identical waves start conflicting with each other. If you're in the "sweet spot" and both waves are hitting your ears at the same time, then it'll give the impression of being 3dB louder than a mono track.

The track delay/offset thing kind of works, but essentially puts the sweet spot somewhere else in the stereo field. Like Tony mentioned, I'd play around with duplicating the track, panning, EQing each differently and then also putting some other subtle different modulation effects on each track (phaser, flanger, chorus, etc...) in addition to delay. The goal is to try and get one or both of the tracks to behave differently so that the coincidence/cancellation of the wave forms is as random as possible.

Neat idea, I'll give it a shot.

Absolutely

Actually, never covered any punk songs, but Manc-wise, have done several O*sis ones....

Les The (Exiled..) Manc