Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

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Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Other Tony » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:08 pm

So I finally motivated myself to doing some recording......plug my guitar in to the 'Normal' input load up Reaper and set up the track to record in.....all's working well? Hit record and the WAV file is like 2 or 3mm thick (hitting around -11 on track monitor).

Playback the WAV and it sounds OK....seems loud enough to work with, although it's so thin its almost invisible when zoomed out

Trawled through the net looking to find why the WAV is so thin and on the line6 site it says load podfarm first and then if needed hit the +18 boost button in the mixer page of podfarm......did this and Woah! the wav is a good size, like it should be (I think)...Like it is when I've used Cubase/Garageband in the past.

Closed Podfarm (by accident) and then instead loaded it as a VST in Reaper and it recorded a big WAV file again!

So then I thought the mixer must still somehow have the +18 button pressed went into the mixer window via Reaper VST window and there is no +18 button on any preset!!!...It must only be there when you use PF standalone interface?

Restarted my laptop loaded Reaper up inserted POD Farm as a VST....Back to the super thin WAV again when recording!

Loaded PF standalone up, pressed +18 button and closed PF standalone down (Actually closed not minimised BTW) and went back to reaper pressed record on track with PF2 VST on and the WAV file is big again

What is going on!! :nuts:

Anyone else here using Reaper and UX2....What size WAV files do you get?....How do you Record (open PF as standalone or as VST plugin in Reaper)?
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Other Tony » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:10 pm

Just noticed the 'INPUT FX' button on Reaper 4.....Tried that without ever loading up PF standalone in this session and I get a really nice strong signal and large Wav...BUT, it records wet so the effect is applied to the recording and cannot be altered/changed after.

Just tried/tested it again...Record with PF VST = small wav, loaded PF2 Standalone press +18 button shut down PF2....Record (same track etc only minimised Reaper, the WAV is now normal looking....It works everytime :shock:

Can't understand why I'm getting a small Wav when using it as a VST plugin :?
Last edited by Other Tony on Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Sungodv » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:40 pm

I don't think anything has to do with the DAW used. My UX2 has been used in REAPER, SONAR, AcidPro, Mixcraft and Samplitude without any problems.
I love the UX2. Best money I've spent on recording. Love dat Tone Direct monitoring. Anyone who get's latency with a gtr, keyboard or Mic with a UX1, 2, 8 or KB37 is doing something wrong.
I've never used the VST version as my UX2 is older...just the PF and GB stand alone so I'm not gonna be much help here.
I usually will commit to a sound and if I don't want to, I just record a clean signal and add effects latter. Even if I had the GB or PF VST, I probably would still use the stand alones for tracking.
The old adage of getting the hottest/loudest signal went out with analog recording. There is no noise floor to speak of in digital so there is no need to get a loud recording... really it's desirable to have a middlin sized WAV file so any effects won't distort.
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Other Tony » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:15 pm

Yeah I don't get any issues with latency, now I've learned how to use it :lol: ....I only just realised the other week that if I set the buffer really small while recording it works fine....Then when I'm mixing I set it to the highest level and it runs smooth as silk, I had a mix with 39 VST plugins on and it it was still running smooth....wish I'd realised that earlier, I was 'burning effects onto tracks before that' and muting & bypassing FX on the originals to save memory on my earlier mixes....Which worked but it was a bit of a pain, it's much easier to change the buffer :lol:

Can't understand whats going on with the WAV size thing though....I'm hoping some other Reaper & UX2 guys will stop by, I know Minerman and Surfercook use Reaper and UX2
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by lucas » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:19 pm

Tony Jack wrote:Just noticed the 'INPUT FX' button on Reaper 4.....Tried that without ever loading up PF standalone in this session and I get a really nice strong signal and large Wav...BUT, it records wet so the effect is applied to the recording and cannot be altered/changed after.
Sounds like an input setting issue.
Click on the 'Input' button on the track. select 'Record Input' instead of 'Record Output'.
if that's not the issue I'm not sure what it would be. Recording the input will bypass any FX VST loaded.

You can also record both a 'Wet' and 'Dry' signal from the standalone.
you need 2 channels/tracks to do it this way.
one track receives the stand alone's send 1 & 2 output.
the other receives the stand alone's send 3 & 4 output. This is set up by clicking the 'Input' button on the track, select 'Stereo' , then 'send 3/send 4'
If you want a mono signal, select 'Mono', then 'send 3' or 'send 4'
Tony Jack wrote:Really don't get why the Wav is so small when you use PF as a VST plugin
can you post a screenshot so we can get a idea of what your WAV looks like?

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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Sungodv » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:28 pm

It' REAPER..... :evil: not Reaper. :look:
:lol:
I've never had to set the buffers for the UX2 to anything other than the default. And mixing has to do with the buffer settings in yer DAW, not the interface. There have been a few who do get latency when tracking on a Line6 interface. Never understood that. :gosh:
Anywho, miner doesn't use a UX2, he has a IK Multimedia interface, but he does have a GuitarPort if memory serves. Sufer does have a UX2 though and voclzr uses a UX2 and a laptop. Not sure how much cookford uses his on his desktop. Sounds like you have some other problems if you get a BSOD upon unplugging the UX2. I unplug and plug da dang thing in all the time and have no issues, but I'm using a desktop with a dedicated USB card for audio stuff.
You may want to join the REAPER and/or the Line6 forum and pose your questions there as well.
Does each WAV file hit around the same db marker upon playback? If it does, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by minerman » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:46 pm

Screenshot would help Tony........I try to get my guitar/bass tracks peaking at around -5 or so in Reaper's track meter.......

The interface I use is Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 there, Sunny-G, but no biggie, IK & NI are easy to get mixed up..... :nuts:

And I still have my Line 6 Guitar Port interface that was never supposed to work with Windows 7, but seems to work better than the Tascam (which it does, the Tascam finally crapped out)........

Let us know if you figure this out or not Tony, be glad to help ya dude........
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Other Tony » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:58 am

Here's a screenshot

Track 1 - Just using UX2 as an interface (No effects Loaded)
Track 2 - UX2 with PF2 loaded as a VST effect (21st century clean)
Track 3 - Loaded up standalone pressed +18 button on mixer, closed standalone opened PF2 as VST effect (21st century clean)

In terms of WAV size there's not much difference between track 1 & 2 but track 3 is the kinda WAV size I was expecting

BTW this is a simple pattern of stummed chords....all played the same on each track and using the same guitar and the same insert effect where applicable
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Last edited by Other Tony on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Other Tony » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:10 am

Lucas - The record mode is set to default setting (record input)....I think this INPUT FX only ever records wet, I've been searching on the Reaper forums and from what I understand this is the way it works.

I found out whilst searching on this topic that I can record and unprocessed signal from PF2 standalone, its in the send options....thats fine I can do it that way...I was just wondering why when you load it as VST the signal is quieter.

Thanks for joining in :)

Steve - Level wise, when I play back the tracks from the screenshot:

Track 1 hits -20
Track 2 hits -10.3
Track 3 hits -1.6 (There is quite a loud hiss on this track when VST effect is on)

Minerman - Screen Shot above, thanks for helping
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by minerman » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:38 am

There doesn't seem to be anything "wrong" with the way the wavs look, but it's how they sound that matter. And of course the last one will be bigger/different, it's got 18 more db of gain going into the daw.......

I think you can have the "+18" button engaged, & still adjust the slider so the input doesn't clip, maybe try messing with that to find a level you're happy with.....

Does the UX2 have an input gain knob on the unit itself? If so, you can do the same thing with that too........I used Gearbox & POD Farm for a while, but it's better for me to use vst's, that way if I wanna change the sound later, I can. All up to the individual, Sungod likes commiting to sounds pretty early on, which is cool, he doesn't spend extra time twiddling with knobs/tweaking the sound, he moves on to the mix........

Just make sure you don't have your input clipping.......

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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Other Tony » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:48 am

No there's no gain knob on the UX2 only for the mics.....which I thought was strange :lol:

I just thought WAVS were meant to be more of a size like the one on track 3....I can still work with wavs like the one in track 2, I was just suprised by the size of it and I still don't understand why the wav's are so different in size when you use it as a VST when compared to using it as a standalone amp/effects sim

Even without the +18 button pressed the signal is still stronger when used as a standalone, (although I didn't put an example of that in the screenshot) plus I can't seem to find anyway of increasing the signal when using it as a VST plugin...I tried adding max gain on the input & output volume knobs and it didnt change the signal size at all only the volume I was listening to

Maybe it's just me going crazy(ier) :nuts:
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by lucas » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:17 pm

sorry, I thought you were saying that the VST track was recording wet.
tracks 1 & 2 look like mine for a dry signal and track 3 looks mine for wet signal.
The difference in WAV size is due to the signal from the standalone being much stronger since it's processed with compression, amp simulation, etc.
The signal recorded for the VST is unprocessed just like track with no VST. If you want to check this, just bypass the FX for that track.
The standalone puts out a wet signal on sends 1 & 2 and a dry one on 3 & 4.
I haven't needed to use the +18 button for anything so far.

example:
Track 1 - standalone send 1 - wet signal recorded
Track 2 - standalone send 3 - dry signal recorded
Track 3 - VST - dry signal recorded
both dry signals match in size because they are unprocessed.
think of it as wet = plugged into an amp and dry = completely unplugged.

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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Sungodv » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:54 pm

Do love how all da zombies* don't show the top of the DAW so we can see who paid and who's clicking past the nag screen.
Anywho, based upon the the channel strip showing the highest peak level that the stand alone is the winner, with the VST coming in second and nothing added coming in third at -20db. Or is that turd?
It seems lucas is getting similar db peak levels outta two of his tracks, the top and bottom both sitting at around -7 db.
Don't be concerned so much on how big the waveform is, but where the track is peaking, TJ.
Both of you have your faders sitting at zero so it's gotta be the input that is dictating the levels. You can always use a trim plug to bring up, or down, any of your levels after the fact. Lemme know if you want the Sonalkis plug. It's free.
I do know larger waveforms are easier to edit. :yes:
Only Mic's have a gain knob on the unit. PF/GB stand alone has the ability to adjust input gain as you know as well as setting the VU's for input or output. I usually have them set to input.


*REAPERS / fanboys have quite the reputation all over the 'net. I see this a bit on some of the DAW forums with other software, it's just that REAP users are so vocal and the numbers seem to be quite large....you know I'm just pullin' yer chains. :P
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Other Tony » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:46 pm

Thanks for taking the time to make the pic Lucas...it's good to see your wavs are of a similar size.....I'm pretty sure my Track 3 from the screenshot is a dry signal though because I have closed down PF2 standalone and just recorded straight from Reaper and then applied the FX as a VST afterwards.....If I switch off the effect then it maxs out at about -6.7 which I think is a good level.

I will just have to record with PF2 loaded up (minimised this time not closed) and record a dry signal from there and then apply the effect after....or I'll choose the effect and record wet and stick with that sound

On a side note I think I prefered the meter's in Reaper 3.* to the ones in Reaper 4

Steve, I wondered what all this Zombie stuff was....I was beggining to develop a complex! :look:
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by lucas » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:53 pm

I record with the VST on the track and standalone closed and hasn't caused me any issues.
I only open the standalone to change the input setting or use the Gearbox Tuner.

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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by Sungodv » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:59 am

Yeah, REAPER users really do have a reputation....and it ain't the best either. Must be all those snot nosed kids who can't afford to buy a DAW that help perpetuate it. Could also be where the term fanboy came from - I should research that. I frequent three non-REAP DAW forums and read what the regulars say about them, though I've only actually seen just a small bit of the fanboy spirit. I call them Zombies.

It's a good DAW, perfect for the state of the worlds economy (you're now screwed without a higher education - or even with one). Regardless of what you use or how much it costs, it's best to really learn how to use it.

Like I said, I would use the stand alone even if I had the VST and record via the GearBox (GB) stand alone (sa), wet or dry, and then add whatever additional effect(s) down the line. The PodFarm (PF) stand alone is OK, but I prefer GB. It's still available for download from L6. Things seem easier to use and find in it. If I want a dual tone, which isn't that often, then PF to the rescue. I think PF sa was merely designed for eye candy, and to make you want to buy upgrade packs to fix all those grayed out items in the carousel.
One of the updates put the GB VST in and another put the PF VST in, but I would have to pay for them, unlike later UX whatever users have to do. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. It really doesn't look that great to me. Some have said they prefer PF sa to GB sa, but I, and a few others here, just like the way GB is laid out. PF sa seems to use a bit less CPU, but it's not really an issue with my quad box.
I wouldn't recommend using a laptop, but if that's all ya have, then you gotta play the cards you're dealt.
Instrument sounds have been printed since recording began. I'm not so sure that having all these choices after the fact does anything for ones workflow....but that's me.
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Re: Recording guitar with UX2 & Reaper

Post by surfercook » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:57 am

Just noticed this topic posted. I'm far from an advanced user, and probably never will be. But I'm managing to get along pretty good for an intermediate user and my passion for music is still very strong, thankfully. Been PC recording w/REAPER and the UX2 for quite a while now w/some ups and downs....Samplitude is kinda on the shelf for now, sorry SunGuy. I made sure the registration is showing here. Figured they deserved the meager $40 for such a great DAW. My first name is Peter. Parents always called me by my middle name, Marc, and that's what I've always gone by.
But my wavs look just like your Tony. If you need to view them larger, just zoom in on the vertical scroll to the right...but you prob already knew that. The guys def have a better handle on the technical details here than me...but thought I'd ring in anyways seeing as you mentioned me. I am quite pleased w/PC RECing but don't see myself selling the old MRS-8 anytime soon.
I'm using POD Farm 2.0 vst and condenser mic for the acoustic guitars here. Bass is D/I w/Guitar Rig4 amp sim. Pedal steel is vsti.
Levels seem pretty good to me.
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