I hear an little acute numerical noise at 48 Khz, 44,1 Khz

Discuss the Zoom H6, H5, H4, H4n, H2, H2n, and H1. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
Locked
chabbbi
new to this board
new to this board
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:45 am

I hear an little acute numerical noise at 48 Khz, 44,1 Khz

Post by chabbbi » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:50 am

Hello !
I'm french and I have purchased a Zoom H4 in United States 15 days ago.
I hear an little acute numerical noise at 48 Khz, 44,1 Khz and Mp3 bitrates.
I don't heard this numerical noise at 96 Khz. I's a little noise, but a little bit disturbing... this sound is more acute at 48 Khz Than 44,1 Khz.
With external mics (with or without phantom power), It's the same noise but less...
Do You know this problem or It's my H4 ? Maybe They will fix It by a new firmware ?
Thanks to answer me !
If There was not this problem, I find the H4 very Nice.
Gilles
0 x

dogmusic
senior member
senior member
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:52 am
Location: Washago, Ontario

Post by dogmusic » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:20 am

Hello,

Please check out these recordings and see if they are the same "acute numerical noise" as what you are hearing.

1. access light tone 44.1.wav
http://www.box.net/public/xe7yvzpezb

2. access light tone 48.wav
http://www.box.net/public/sobave36ct


Also, check out the topic: <"Beeping" sound in recordings> in this forum here: http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7221

Thank you.
0 x

chabbbi
new to this board
new to this board
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:45 am

Post by chabbbi » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:12 am

Yes It's the same Noise ! But me It's not when there's an access ! It's all the time, continuous for my H4..... And It's more acure at 48 Khz than 44,1, like You.
I don't hear this sound at 96 Khz, and You ?
Thanks for all ! I hope an update will resolve It...
Gilles.
0 x

dogmusic
senior member
senior member
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:52 am
Location: Washago, Ontario

Post by dogmusic » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:25 am

Hello Gilles,

Thanks for your reply. I hope more users who encounter this problem will respond.

I have not encountered the tone/noise at 96 Khz either. I will do a recording and have a look at the wave form.

I also hope an update will solve it because I think the H4 has a lot of potential.
0 x

chabbbi
new to this board
new to this board
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:45 am

Post by chabbbi » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:24 am

Thanks also Dogmusic !
I have posted also the problem to Zoom and Samson.
If I have news from them, I will post It on this Forum.
Gilles
0 x

MRC01
senior member
senior member
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:01 am

Post by MRC01 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:11 pm

Sounds to me like crosstalk noise - especially since it's coordinated with a blinking light on the unit. The audio circuit is picking up other electrical signals within the unit. If so, it's probably not something that could be fixed with firmware - would require changes to the board - component or layout changes.

Those kinds of changes are expensive - they have to submit design changes to the board fabricator. Sometimes the board fabricators decide to build it their own way - ignoring various details of the submitted design. Either way it's expensive to fix. Also the noise is quiet enough, it's not obvious to the casual listener and may be a known deficiency considered "normal".

Here's hoping all this is wrong and they fix it in firmware...
0 x

chabbbi
new to this board
new to this board
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:45 am

Post by chabbbi » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:14 pm

Hello,
How do You explain that At 96 Khz, we don't hear this sound ?
And for me the sound is continuous, not when the light is blinking...
Then I don't think that It requires to change the motherboard - component or layout. I think we have to wait news from Zoom/Samson.
Gilles
0 x

MRC01
senior member
senior member
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:01 am

Post by MRC01 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:34 pm

In the sound files posted here, the sound pulsates. In another forum (taropatch) the same issue was mentioned - a low level noise that pulsates with a light on the display.

Also it's possible that different sampling frequencies use different signal paths on the board. Even if they always use the same signal path, a different sampling frequency may have a different RF signature which can cause different noise patterns.

And of course it's always possible you're describing a different noise.

And finally it's always possible that my whole idea here is bogus and they will fix it in firmware. That's what I'm hoping. :)
0 x

chabbbi
new to this board
new to this board
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:45 am

Post by chabbbi » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:57 pm

I'm Hopig so !
I have exactly the same low level noise but "without pulsate" for my part ! That's why It's incredible...
My noise don't pulsate with any led or other... It's a a continuous noise.
Gilles
0 x

dogmusic
senior member
senior member
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:52 am
Location: Washago, Ontario

Post by dogmusic » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:17 pm

In the sound files posted here, the sound pulsates. In another forum (taropatch) the same issue was mentioned - a low level noise that pulsates with a light on the display.
There is also another user who has the same problem as Gilles/chabbbi, i.e., a continuous tone. This is from the Reviews section of the H4 at http://www.zzounds.com/productreview--ZOMH4

Here is a quote from that review:

"Sound:
In 44.1 & 48kHz there is a "tone" evident on ALL recording in any critical listening. This renders this thing useless for picking up any kind of low-level sounds since it's immediately apparent. "

also:

"Support:
I called zoom in Long Island regarding the tones I'm hearing at low levels during recording in 44.1 & 48k.. The guy ... went and recorded a couple minutes of audio in the busy office he was in ... A busy office is going to drown out any of this noise. It's at low levels.. Like say if you were to record ANYTHING in a room of complete silence. The thing is usless for grabbing any sound fx without ambience under 24bit because of this."

So perhaps it will be fixed with an update.
0 x

chabbbi
new to this board
new to this board
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:45 am

Post by chabbbi » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:33 am

Yes It's the same like me....
Thanks again for this news. The same bad noise but continuous.. :wink:
0 x

chabbbi
new to this board
new to this board
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:45 am

Post by chabbbi » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:27 am

Hello everybody !
I have received a message from Zoom Japan :

"Dear Sir,

Thank you for your inquiry.

First of all, please accept our apologies for the inconvenience.
If possible, please send one of the recoded file which can be confirmed the
noise problem by email.
(Our email server can be received less than 5MB files at once.)
We would like to check the numerical noise.
Also, please let us know the following settings of H4.

Power Supply: Batteries / AC adaptor
Input Source: Built-in Mic / External Mic
Gain Setting: L / M / H
Rec Level: 0 to 127
Phantom Power: ON / OFF
Effects: ON / OFF

We appreciate your cooperation in advance.

Sincerely,
ZOOM Corporation.

I will reply them in few minutes.
Gilles
0 x

rnms
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:07 pm
Contact:

Post by rnms » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:41 am

I also get this low level pulsing noise when I use a Viking 2 gig. SD card only when I use batteries. ie. if I use the power adapter the noise is not present, but I don't get any such noise with the supplied 128 meg card even when using batteries. the Viking card is not on the confirmed media list on the Zoom website, I just wonder if this problem is SD card related.
0 x

BrianD
been here a while
been here a while
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:18 pm

Post by BrianD » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:20 am

rnms wrote:I just wonder if this problem is SD card related.
I just posted a pretty thorough account of my own experiences in another thread here. My unit behaves the same with both my aftermarket card and the card that came with the unit. Everythink is OK when using the power supply, or when using the 96kHz setting. Every other combination results in the noise/pulsing noise (aka 'beeping').

Perhaps the 3V supplied by 2 AA batteries is insufficient. The external supply is 9V DC. I'm thinking that eventually (after the warranty), I'll just try running 6 AA batteries in through the 9V jack as an external battery pack. My guess is the unit would behave flawlessly using something like that.

Brian
0 x

rnms
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:07 pm
Contact:

Post by rnms » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:52 am

I must admit , this pulsing noise is not loud and only apparent in very quiet situations and will not interfere with normal recordings, anything capable of recording the footsteps of ants will cost a great deal of money, I am very pleased with this unit.
0 x

BrianD
been here a while
been here a while
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:18 pm

Post by BrianD » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:23 am

rnms wrote:I must admit , this pulsing noise is not loud and only apparent in very quiet situations and will not interfere with normal recordings, anything capable of recording the footsteps of ants will cost a great deal of money, I am very pleased with this unit.
I agree, pretty much. I still listen, occassionally, to a recording I made of my high school musical from 1974, and the clicking of the tape transport on the $49 cassette recorder is very prominent. The Zoom H4 is light years ahead of almost anything that was affordable in the past. Minidiscs would be the possible exception, in terms of fidelity and noise floor. I've gotten a lot of service out of my old Sony.

But if I were to record my daughter's orchestra in a respectfully quiet auditorium from my seat in any mode except 96kHz, I'm sure the tone would be heard at least on headphones upon listening to the recording during the quiet passages. It's situations like that where I'm particularly glad the 96kHz mode works (phenomenally, actually!), and which might lead me to use an external battery pack.

I play guitar. I dabble in composing. I have talented kids in musical productions and am active in a choir. This is a GREAT unit for $299. It is like Samson/Zoom read my mind and threw everything I'd want into it...but I'm glad there are modes where the tone issue can be avoided for the quietest environments. Best pre-Christmas Christmas present my wife has ever given me. :)

Brian
0 x

User avatar
Zoetrope
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 6574
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Post by Zoetrope » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:40 am

I'm locking this thread, since we have two threads on the same topic. Please post in the other one:
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7221

Thanks.

Great discussion!
0 x

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests