Question on reamping technique

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hoodoo voodoo
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Question on reamping technique

Post by hoodoo voodoo » Wed May 10, 2017 6:04 am

Apologies if this is a bit rambling, I wanted to be sure to include enough detail.

I'm wanting to do some reamp recording this weekend, with 3 members of the band in one room (drums, elec bass, elec gtr) and the singer/acoustic guitar in the control room with me. All working via headphones.

I'm proposing to record all 3 instruments (drum bass, elec gtr) live, and have bass and elec gtr going into R16 via DI's (monitoring with some basic R16 effects)...singer/ac gtr going direct into R16 also.

If Elec gtr and bass can live without hearing their own amps, just monitoring their DI sounds being recorded, I'll then play each back via line out of R16 headphone into both amps, then mic the amps and play back DI tracks from R16 headphone out and record them each back into a fresh R16 channel, thus getting the speaker/amp sound (and retaining the DI also !) One pass each for bass and guitar amps required of course. No need to monitor the input of the reamped instruments, once they have tweaked the amps for best sound, while the reamping is taking place.

I'm hoping for no delay/latency...there shouldn't be any except for the distance between mic and speaker cones, and if there's any discrepancy during mixing (in Reaper) I can always adjust via nudging waveforms to line up DI and reamped (speaker amp) inputs.

Vocals will happen later as overdubs, but I really wanted to have the drums, elec gtr/elec bass all playing together in the same room....but without amp leakage into drum mics and vice versa, and without having to hide amps in cupboards etc.

Does this sound as though it will work in principle ?

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Re: Question on reamping technique

Post by Wulfraed » Wed May 10, 2017 8:10 am

hoodoo voodoo wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 6:04 am
I'm proposing to record all 3 instruments (drum bass, elec gtr) live, and have bass and elec gtr going into R16 via DI's (monitoring with some basic R16 effects)...singer/ac gtr going direct into R16 also.
Remember that there is a limit on effects -- for the most part effects are single-track, and only one effect algorithm can be active at a time. Dual Mic allows for two tracks with independence, Stereo is two tracks with identical settings. 8x is available for all inputs at once, but very limited (just the compressor/EQ). Mastering is similar to stereo but with a different set of stages.
If Elec gtr and bass can live without hearing their own amps, just monitoring their DI sounds being recorded, I'll then play each back via line out of R16 headphone into both amps, then mic the amps and play back DI tracks from R16 headphone out and record them each back into a fresh R16 channel, thus getting the speaker/amp sound (and retaining the DI also !) One pass each for bass and guitar amps required of course. No need to monitor the input of the reamped instruments, once they have tweaked the amps for best sound, while the reamping is taking place.

I'm hoping for no delay/latency...there shouldn't be any except for the distance between mic and speaker cones, and if there's any discrepancy during mixing (in Reaper) I can always adjust via nudging waveforms to line up DI and reamped (speaker amp) inputs.
There will likely be some. The playback tracks have to go through a D/A conversion -- which, in simplest form, may be a capacitor with a tap to a comparator (the comparator is a form of A/D conversion -- the D/A charges/discharges the capacitor until the redigitized voltage matches the value of the sample). Then, on the amp recording, you have an A/D converter, and they take a bit of time to process.

At best (hypothetical), I'd expect there to be a delay of two sample periods (0.000045 sec -> 45microSec)... one period for the output conversion, output signal to amp/microphone back, one period for input conversion. This doesn't account for any effects processing.

It would be the same as for any over-dubbing latency.
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hoodoo voodoo
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Re: Question on reamping technique

Post by hoodoo voodoo » Wed May 10, 2017 8:24 am

Thanks Wulfraed, yes I think they could live with a single instance of reverb or delay, if that could go across all the outputs and into the headphone feed. The re-amping delay seems minimal, and the players won't be hearing it anyway...so if it amounts to anything much I can compensate in the DAW (Reaper)
It should all work, if they can abandon their amp sounds while recording...knowing they will regain them on reamping !

mikethebass
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Re: Question on reamping technique

Post by mikethebass » Wed May 10, 2017 12:19 pm

Another possibility,

Pan the bass hard left and the guitar hard right when playing back.
Take a standard guitar lead from each out put into the relevant amp.

You can record both instruments at once, there may be some slight bleed that you may or may not like.

The down side is that you cannot have totally different effects on each channel at the same time.

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Re: Question on reamping technique

Post by Wulfraed » Wed May 10, 2017 2:10 pm

Maybe a silly question, but do the amps have line-out jacks?

If they do, you could perhaps let the players play through the amps, and use the line-outs to the R16 (rather than looping a direct to the amp and using a microphone to record the amp)
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hoodoo voodoo
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Re: Question on reamping technique

Post by hoodoo voodoo » Wed May 10, 2017 7:46 pm

Thanks Wulfraed and mikethebass.....both great suggestions, I like the idea of controlled bleed after the recording...and the amp line outs could give the required bite, if both amps have these sockets. Cheers !

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Re: Question on reamping technique

Post by MoonBassAlpha » Fri May 19, 2017 4:29 pm

If you use the amps line-outs, there's the problem of bleed into the drum mics. Personally, I don't regard it as much of a problem, as long as everybody plays their part right!
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hoodoo voodoo
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Re: Question on reamping technique

Post by hoodoo voodoo » Sun May 21, 2017 10:16 pm

As it turned out we simply put the instrument amps in separate rooms with mics on them and closed the doors ! The musicians were in the 'live room' with the drummer, while the singer guitarist was in the control room with me. We all had headphones on. I used a Soundcraft mixer as a mic preamp/phantom power source and fed the R16 via the "inserts" sockets of the Soundcraft (1/4" TS plugs pushed in all the way) and directly into the 8 line in sockets of the R16, with the Zoom gains all at 0. It worked perfectly !

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