R16/R24 and multitrack questions

Discuss the Zoom HD and R series. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
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JVP
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R16/R24 and multitrack questions

Post by JVP » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:44 pm

Hey, pretty new to home recording here. I have kind of a lot of questions…I’m debating between the zoom r16 or the r24. I have a little experience with the r16 (how to start a recording, how to start it over when I mess up.) My computer is not really capable of handling daw recording and I don’t want to deal with the hassle that comes along with it. I mostly play stoner/garage/rock and roll/psychedelic pop. This will be used at home.

What I want:
1. To be able to record my electric guitar, bass, vocals: Currently planning on getting an SM57 to use for this most of the time. I won’t be needing/wanting to record more than a few inputs at a time max. Likely I will be micing a guitar/bass cab with 1 mic for now, maybe 2 in the future. I also may be doing DI with an amp simulator or something. However I also wonder if it’s possible to record something on standalone amplitube like program and then put that on a track on the zoom? (Don't currently have amplitube, but seems like it would be useful for times when kids are home or asleep.) Can I use the zoom to play my guitars in amplitube? Or can I load a DI guitar track from zoom onto amplitube to add effects? Can I load an amplitube track onto my or my buddies zoom?

2. To add drum tracks from my buddies zoom r16: We want to do a long distance music project. If he has a r16 and I have an r16/r24 can I load tracks he sends me onto my zoom and then record my stuff along with those?

3. To be able to post music for people to listen to on bandcamp or soundcloud: How easy/difficult is it to mix/master stuff from the zoom? Does either platform have advantages in this area i.e. bigger screen, easier navigation? I tend to like pretty raw sounding stuff so I don’t know how much I will need from this area but I’m also ignorant so info is appreciated.

4. Create my own drum noises when buddy is too busy. How good/easy to use is the r24 drum machine? Is there a better option at a similar price for the difference between the two machines? Could I get ez drummer and make tracks on that to load onto my zoom for stuff outside my long distance project?

5. What advantages does the r24 have over the r16 besides drum machine and more tracks? Is it easier workflow? I read something about multiple takes being easier on the r24?

Am I looking at the right thing for at least most of what I want with regards to R16/24? Should I be looking at something else?

Sorry if these are terrible questions, i've tried looking some things up but it hasn't always been clear. Thanks!
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Re: R16/R24 and multitrack questions

Post by Wulfraed » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:59 pm

JVP wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:44 pm
Hey, pretty new to home recording here. I have kind of a lot of questions…I’m debating between the zoom r16 or the r24. I have a little experience with the r16 (how to start a recording, how to start it over when I mess up.) My computer is not really capable of handling daw recording and I don’t want to deal with the hassle that comes along with it. I mostly play stoner/garage/rock and roll/psychedelic pop. This will be used at home.
If you haven't already done it, download the manuals for the devices and study them.

What I want:
1. To be able to record my electric guitar, bass, vocals: Currently planning on getting an SM57 to use for this most of the time. I won’t be needing/wanting to record more than a few inputs at a time max. Likely I will be micing a guitar/bass cab with 1 mic for now, maybe 2 in the future. I also may be doing DI with an amp simulator or something. However I also wonder if it’s possible to record something on standalone amplitube like program and then put that on a track on the zoom? (Don't currently have amplitube, but seems like it would be useful for times when kids are home or asleep.) Can I use the zoom to play my guitars in amplitube? Or can I load a DI guitar track from zoom onto amplitube to add effects? Can I load an amplitube track onto my or my buddies zoom?
For the most part, unless you use the 8X-input algorithm, you will be limited to one or two inputs at a time. Clean/Distortion/Acoustic&Bass Sim/Bass, and Mic, are mono algorithms -- they only take one input. Dual Mic and Stereo take two inputs -- and as the name implies, Stereo applies the same setting to both left&right channels; Dual Mic can have different settings, but effects are optimized for microphones. 8X is the only one that allows for more than two inputs, but only has a high-pass, compressor, and 3-band EQ for each input. Mastering is stereo but really meant to be used for final bouncing, not direct recording.

No idea what "Amplitube" is capable of. If it produces WAV files in the format compatible with the project settings, you can copy them to the SD card and assign them to faders. If it is just some effect chain with no file capability you would have to take the output and record it using the Zoom device and one of the effect algorithms (or turn all effects off).

2. To add drum tracks from my buddies zoom r16: We want to do a long distance music project. If he has a r16 and I have an r16/r24 can I load tracks he sends me onto my zoom and then record my stuff along with those?
Again -- if they are WAV files in the same format as the project settings, you can copy to SD card and assign to faders/tracks.
3. To be able to post music for people to listen to on bandcamp or soundcloud: How easy/difficult is it to mix/master stuff from the zoom? Does either platform have advantages in this area i.e. bigger screen, easier navigation? I tend to like pretty raw sounding stuff so I don’t know how much I will need from this area but I’m also ignorant so info is appreciated.
They are all basically the same... The R24 has an extra bank of tracks -- mostly because using the rhythm/sequencer functions requires putting samples onto tracks. None of the R-series has intra-track editing (no cut/paste of snippets from one part of a track to another, inter-track editing is basically copying entire tracks; the long discontinued HD16 allowed for intra-/inter-track editing allowing for cut/paste moving of parts of tracks).
4. Create my own drum noises when buddy is too busy. How good/easy to use is the r24 drum machine? Is there a better option at a similar price for the difference between the two machines? Could I get ez drummer and make tracks on that to load onto my zoom for stuff outside my long distance project?


The R24 doesn't really have a drum machine as most people think of one. The rhythm system is basically a sample sequencer with sounds assigned to pads under the track (though the drum kits may be MIDI generated rather than true loop samples -- the track sequencer works with WAV loop samples, but works the same way for setting up patterns).

Again, the discontinued HD16 had a true MIDI drum machine which did not tie up tracks -- song arrangements were stored as a dedicated rhythm track.
5. What advantages does the r24 have over the r16 besides drum machine and more tracks? Is it easier workflow? I read something about multiple takes being easier on the r24?
The default behavior when re-recording on a track changed. The R16 will overwrite any file assigned to a track armed for recording. To create a new take on that track you have to go into the menu system and set the track with the file to "NOT ASSIGN". On the R24 the equivalent is to set it to "New Take"... HOWEVER, the R24 also has a recording mode setting that specifies if the behavior should be OVERWRITE or ALWAYS NEW (if "always new" is selected, it will never overwrite a file, but will de-assign any current file and create a new one whenever you press the record button -- if "overwrite" is the setting, it behaves just like the R16).
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JVP
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Re: R16/R24 and multitrack questions

Post by JVP » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:07 pm

Thanks Wulfraed, that is helpful! Reading through the manuals is probably my best bet, was just hoping for some easy answers up front. It does seem like it's best to really dig in once you get one to fully utilize it's capabilities.
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Re: R16/R24 and multitrack questions

Post by Jim_Fogle » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:15 pm

Both the R16 and R24 have minimal audio file editing capability. Steinberg's Cubase LE DAW software is included in the purchase of either recorder with the expectation the DAW will be used for editing and mixing.

Amplitude is a computer software effects program. Neither the R16 or R24 knows how to use computer programs so they don't know how to use Amplitude. You can record your guitar or vocal then transfer the audio file to Cubase on your computer and use your Amplitude program there.

For what you're wanting to do the R8 should work for you. It actually has more features than either the R16 or R24. A forum user, Code Kidde, has a computer program that will let you transfer audio files between the R8, R16, R24 or any of the older Zoom desktop recorders. Here is a post that talks about the program: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25344#p213963 and here is a link to the program: www.philchris.co.uk/zoom-convert/zoom_convert.zip
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Re: R16/R24 and multitrack questions

Post by JVP » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:18 pm

Thanks Jim_Fogle!

So if my drummer sends me his tracks would i set levels and everything on cubase? and then put it on my r8/16 if i wanted to record along to the drums?
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Re: R16/R24 and multitrack questions

Post by Jim_Fogle » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:11 pm

Assuming your drummer sends you audio files you create a new project (song) then use the USB connection to import the audio file from the computer to the new project. The steps will be in the manual. You will need to make sure you and the drummer agree on the file bit depth and sampling rate. Your drummer will set the file output level while exporting the audio file from his project.

Audio files are device and program independent. It doesn't matter what program or device creates an audio file as long as the file is created to a standard. The bit depth standard of 16 bits and sampling rate of 44,100 samples per second for wave files were set by the standard for compact discs back in the eighties. The standards for audio used with video is different at 24 bits and 48,000 samples per second.
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http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music
Zoom MRS-8
Gibson acoustic 12-string, Peavey Predator, Line6 Variax, Yamaha keyboard and digital drums
2018 Band-in-a-Box, ChordPulse http://www.chordpulse.com/
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