Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

I hope I don't offend the audiophiles with this question. I've downsized my digital recording setup by replacing my computer DAW with the Zoom, and now I need to either go all-headphones, or replace my power amplifier (aka stereo) with something really tiny. My speakers aren't great, so sound quality is not a big concern. Cheap is good.

Basically, all I need is something to bring the line level from the Zoom's output up to speaker level to my 6 ohm, 100 W speakers. I'm not adverse to building a circuit to do this if someone can point me at a schematic. I'd prefer something pre-built if it's small and not too expensive to save me the time though.

Any recommendations?

Given the choice between cheap speakers or headphones, I'd go with headphones. A purist will tell you that you can't mix on headphones, but that same purist will be looking at a pair of studio monitors costing you well over $1,000. In my opinion, you'll get better bang for the buck with whatever decent pair of headphones fits within your budget. If possible, find some that give you flat response rather than "juicing" the sound. While the latter will sound better, the former will give you a more reliable mix.

And, as stated in another thread, I challenge you to reconsider your choice to stop using the DAW. I still think you'll get a better work flow by doing most of the work on the PC. You may have valid reasons for wanting to do it strictly on the recorder, and I'm not here to tell you you're wrong. Just tossing out my opinion (and you know what they say about opinions ).

Recently I mixed a bunch of live tracks for some demos for my band. I have a nice DAW with Studio Monitors. When I sent the files to my bandmates, they all listened to the tracks off the internet using headphones. Everyone said that the tracks needed more bass. Well, the songs sounded fine with my studio monitors, but I listened to the tracks on my headphones and also felt more bass was needed. So I pumped up the bass and now the bandmates are much happier, but the songs sound too muddy in my studio monitors.

Point is, I could have saved lots of money just using my headphones for mixing/mastering because that is what most of the people listening to our music will be using. I will have to re-eq my studio monitors to compensate for difference in bass response between the headphones and the monitors. It's not a big deal, but I'm now wondering if I should have just used my headphones from the start and saved myself some hard earned cash.

The advantage with studio monitors, for me, is that I experience less ear fatigue as compared to using headphones. But now, right or wrong, I am using my "cheap" headphones for final mastering instead of my more expensive studio monitors because the guys on the other end of my tracks are using their "cheap" headphones. And by "cheap" headphones, I mean inexpensive as compared to the price I paid for my studio monitors.

Don't apologize for mixing/mastering with headphones. I too agree that you get more bang for your buck using headphones. Studio monitors are great, but at this point, I kind of wish I had my money back considering I end of doing all my final mastering in the cans anyway.

I use in-ears (Sony MDR-EX56: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=3695407)) to do about 90% of the mix (panning, volume levels, etc.), and then I do the final mix on Logitech 5.1 speaker system with the bass subwoofer tuned to roughly what most people's computer speakers or home stereo speakers will be tuned to.

About the only thing I would have done differently in gtaus's case would have been to tell the band to get a life and listen through their speakers to ensure that the bass was basically fine. I just love how bandmates the world around are fully satisfied to have SOMEONE ELSE handle all the recording, mixing, fine-tuning, etc., and then they turn into instant critics when you present them with your hard work. Bah. They can go hang. I listened to my bandmates as far as overall levels were concerned (and gee...the guitarist always complained that he was low in the mix...imagine that), but regarding EQ, effects, reverb, etc., they just don't have a voice. Period. Hate to be so dictatorial, but it's my time and my life.

Can you tell I've had too much coffee?? Man I'm feisty today.

That's what I meant by I'll have to re-eq my monitors; I'll have to lower my bass in the studio monitors to better match the bass response the guys are hearing on their headsets.

As far as the other stuff, selbalicious speaks from experience. It's really hard to please everyone in the band and probably not worth the time or effort you might end up putting into the recording/mixing/mastering project. I'm learning that too. Some suggestions are helpful, others are a matter of taste, and some don't make sense. And yeah, don't work yourself till you're too tired, or drink too much coffee, because it just makes it harder to take "suggestions" from others. I know Kevin has some background with bandmates in that respect, and I'm experiencing a bit of that myself right now.

Maybe that's why I know look back at all the money I put into my multi-track recorder, DAW, workstation stand, and studio monitors and think I just could have done most - if not all - of it with my laptop (or recorder) and headphones at the kitchen table. So if you end up using headphones and your recorder for mixing and mastering, good enough.

Thanks all for the advice. I have Audio Technica ATHM40FS headphones (http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT ... 459&sr=8-1). It looks like the price came down even further since I bought them. I like these a lot, but my ears get tired after playing or mixing for a while. I'd like to be able to use speakers to reduce ear fatigue as well as just to give me another way to listen to the sound when mixing.

Are these the right sort of headphones to be mixing on? The description says "flat, extended frequency response for mixing and monitoring", but that's the manufacturer's words.

I was thinking of building this kit for a power amplifier: http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... _129138_-1

It's only 30 Watts per channel, but probably enough, right?

My studio monitors are 150 watts per side http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B2031P.aspx. I never pump 150 watts through them while mixing, but 30 watts per side sounds a bit underweight to me. You want to push the woofers and that usually takes some power. I'll defer to others as to how much wattage a person actually needs, but at first look, 30 watts seems to be on the small side. You might want to read a bit more on studio monitors and recommendations. If you don't want to use headphones because of ear fatigue, I can understand that, but I'm not sure a 30 watt amplifier will get you the sound you will need to mix through studio monitors.

I think I'd have to wear earplugs to be in the same room as a set of speakers averaging near 30W!

Another thing to consider is what speakers you plan on using for your monitors. You want to make sure your amplifier has the power to drive your speakers. Your studio monitors should sound good at both low levels and loud levels.

Have you looked at powered studio monitors in the 30 watt range to see what kind of reviews they get? I think the trick is to have monitors matched with the power amplifier for best sound output. Also, everyone has a different opinion on studio monitors and I've heard guys picking up 30 watt active monitors for about $60 a pair and they are happy with what they have. Others insist on "high end" monitors costing $2000+ with 200+ watts per speaker. The more I read on the subject, the more confused I get because it all seems to come down to personal taste, opinion, or budget. I don't think there is any objective way to measure if one studio monitor is better than another. If there was, I don't think there would be so many different opinions on the subject.

Great topic guys. I've been doing some research on this recently myself.

Headphones are a great way to listen to your sound however most people that listen to music are doing it through speakers/monitors not headphones. (No offense to Audiophiles). Also the aforementioned headphone fatigue. The problem may not be your monitors but room acoustics. Is the room inactive, too active, waves canceling out each other, too boomy, etc? Walk around the room. Does the bass sound different in certain areas of the room? What are the monitors sitting on? Can you reposition them? Inexpensive monitors in the right environment do wonders yet expensive monitors in the wrong environment will surely disappoint. I understand there extensive studies on this topic alone. Actually not liking the sound coming out of your monitors may be a good thing because it forces us to tweak the sound until it does sound good. One other suggestion is to burn your mix to cd and play it in your car. Does it sound as good as other cd's played there or what's on the radio. This will help adjust your mix through your monitors as well.
Just some thoughts.

Hey, DigitalKeys. Just wondering if you built that amplifier, bought a pre-made amp, or just decided to drop the whole issue for now?

I'm going to find space to use an old stereo system as a power amp. It's a little bigger than I wanted, but it will work. Instead of spending time building an amplifier, I'd rather be making music. :-) If I do find the time to build an amplifier, I'm going to buy components (not the kit) and put something together that has more power than that kit.

Thanks for asking.

-Matt

Sounds like a good plan to me. I have an old stereo that I also have used as an amp before I upgraded to my PA system. Was plenty good enough for what I wanted to do at home. And, like I said, for mixing, I find myself using my headphones most of the time instead of using my expensive studio monitors and power amps. There are advantages to both headphones and the studio monitor setup. Best wishes.

Before shelling out a lot of money for speakers, read and learn about your room acoustics. If you get a really great pair of speakers and your room isn't properly set up for them, it will sound bad.

if you want to just listen to audio without headphones, I would look on craigs list for something middle of the road computer style speakers. I think you should stick to headphones and build up a nice collection of them.

I have the 40s mentioned here as well as these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4 ... tudio.html

the m50s fit much nicer and I don't get ear fatigue mentioned by some.

If I buy another pair of headphones, it will probably be these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5 ... ifications

This DJ guy on youtube favors the sennheiser's that I linked. start watching at 3:50 for his review.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9En6Cvi9ces

When I first got my r16, I was so interested in getting studio monitors and treating the room for acoustics and getting fancy speaker cable , but that appeal died off because if I were to get studio speakers it would around $375 for an old pair of KRKs (a good price). Not only that but it is not portable as headphones (obviously) I can't just shove the headphones of choice in a bag along with my r16.

another side effect of speakers...they can be loud and annoy people.

I also agree that 30 watts would be a lot of power to constantly listen to.

By the way, while we're talking about headphones, I've been using Beyerdynamic DT770 pros for tracking and mixing, and I'm in love with them. We needed something with significant isolation for my buddy as he records drums, and they do a pretty good job with that. Plus they're very comfortable and provide great sound. At $200, they're not in everybody's budget, but if you can get the cash together, I highly recommend them. I'd like to get another pair, but really can't justify the expense.

I know that it's kinda late to post a reply to your question, but here goes any way and please understand that this is only my opinion based on research that I've done on this subject. I bought my Zoom HD16CD back in late October of 2009, but didn't purchase any "Studio" (nearfield) Monitors until April of 2010 mainly for two reasons- the first was budget constraints and the second was "researching" the subject of monitors. I actually spent many (probably in excess of 150-200) hours looking into this topic. I visited many blogs, reviews,manufacturers sites, studio sites and so on to gather as much information as I could (but I am no "authority" on the subject). While in the process of doing all this research I used headphones (headphones are great as they eliminate problems with room acoustics), I used my PA system (way lots of wattage there) and even a pair of battery powered Radio Shack speakers ( the kind they used to sell back when you wanted to plug your portable CD player-remember those?-into something other than headphones). I didn't try using my home stereo (which is a high end JBL component system also with lots of wattage) but I considered it. But, in my experience and research, here's some things that I found out; Using a home stereo, PA system or amplifier with "regular" speakers causes some problems, mainly in sound quality. When using one of these systems to record and to mix with, it causes your recording to essentially match with the specifications, peculiarities, sound, frequency response etc. specific to that particular system so while it may sound great when played back on that particular system, but when played back on a system with different specs, peculiarities,sound, frequency response etc. it's going to sound completely different and possibly even may sound bad. So you really want to record with an amp/passive speaker system or Active (self powered/amped) Studio Monitors or headphones with the flattest frequency response possible-the theory being that if you can make your recording sound good on these-it will sound great on anything else that it's played back on, be it a car stereo, home stereo, MP3 or what have you. Wattage is not as important of a factor as some people make it out to be-wattage is essentially volume. While more volume may make some things easier to hear, frequency response and total harmonic distortion are much more important factors-30watts is plenty. It'd be great if we all could afford some really high end monitors-like Focals or Genelecs or Event Opals but for most of us that just isn't reality because of the high prices. But there are some really great and affordable alternatives such as M-Audio's Studiophile AV-40's ($149.97 pair) or Alesis M1 Active 520's ($199.97 pair-recently with $20 rebate) or Samson's (Zoom's parent company) MediaOne5's($199.97 pair) are just a few good quality examples. For me I chose the Alesis M1 Active 520's (mainly because they were highly recommended in many of the studio sites that I visited,as were the AV-40's and the MediaOne5's-and I got a great deal on a pair of "Demos").These deliver a nice flat frequency response, great sound and ample wattage (they are bi-amped and deliver 55watts LF (woofer) and 20watts HF (tweeter) for a sum total of 75watts-although some sites list them at 100watts-they are actually 55/20). As for myself, I would continue to use headphones until I could squeeze a pair of active nearfield monitors into the budget, which is just what I did. Again, I am no "authority" or expert on the subject, this is merely my opinion (for what it's worth) and the best advice that I can offer to you. Hope it helps. Good Luck!-Jim