Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

If that's true, and you wanted to use your own drum samples and make a beat for your song, wouldn't you have to manually repeat it? I don't see a function to copy and paste bars in the sequence, so you'd have to manually repeat the beat by playing the pads for 5 minutes to program it into the sequence?

I thought you could make a pattern that triggers various pads, then trigger that pattern in some global way. So you could make a pattern for an intro beat, then make one for a verse and chorus beat, then trigger them like, intro->verse->chorus->verse->chorus, and it'd play those patterns in a sequence.

The manual is confusing - I was not able to figure it out how it worked by the manual only too.
I wrote that to Zoom but the manual was finished already when I started to beta test the R24.

The R24 can do a lot of new tricks.

Here some facts:

1) There are the - well known - drum patterns - this time without any bass.
2) There are NO songs (of drums & bass) anymore
3) No option to change the drum samples
4) No option to change the single drum instruments (e.g. pan, volume for snaredrum only, reverb for single instruments, ...)

5) But wait - we have other options for my points 2..4, as well as there is no need for virtual tracks anymore - since we have unlimited wave files assignable to any track (since the R16)

6) The drums consist of two banks:
bank1 are labeled on the trigger pads, bank2 are optional instruments (percussion...)

7) While the old songs where for drums and bass only is the new 'track sequencer' for much more. It can trigger drum patterns and wave files in any combination.

Yes the track sequencer can be used to trigger single instruments (like your favorite crash sample) as well as complete drum pattern, audio loops, parts of your audio files ...

9) So in case you just like the old 'song' feature - than create say 5 pattern - assign them to 10 tracks (stereo) and trigger them (step by step - or in real time) to create a track sequence.
So now we know while we need 24 'tracks' - if you like to create a song with 12 different (stereo) drum patterns - then you have to use all 24 tracks only for the drums.
Of course you can bounce all this stuff later to create a stereo master drum (audio) track if you like and have 22 tracks for audio again.

10) My upcoming R24PatternEditor will allow you to create drum patterns on your PC as well as import patterns from you existing PS02, PS04, MRS, HD8, HD16 Zoom files as well as from Midi files.

11) Audio can be used in the same way as drum patterns in the R24.
That means you can trigger all kinds of audio stuff in combination with the drum patterns from the track sequencer.

12) These audio events can be played once (single shot) or in a loop for some times or endlessly.

13) These audio loops are unlike in other Zoom recorders seamless - no sound gap - and can be synchronized perfectly to your beat.


Example:
-Convert some midi patterns to R24 patterns with my PatternEditor
(or use one of the hundreds of factory ones)
-Store one guide pattern (e.g. 4 measures long) on track 7/8
(set it up to play endlessly in a loop)
-Record you bass guitar track riff on track1 - e.g. a 12 bar blues riff
(there are nice inbuilt bass guitar effects in the R24)
-Swap this track to track 6
(set it it to loop)
-Record you backing guitar track riff on track1 - e.g. a 24 bar blues riff
(there are nice inbuilt guitar effects in the R24)
-Swap this track to track 5
(set it it to loop)
-Now when you play this then you hear the drums looping all 4 measures, the bass guitar each 12 measures and the guitar riff each 24 measures - without the need to use the track sequencer - it's totally easy.
-Record the lead guitar on track1
-Record your vocals on other tracks

Your first blues record is done.

Now it's time to select different beats (intros, fills, endings) and change your rhythm - if you like.
Or you can create complete small parts for (intro, verse, chorus, solo, ending) and combile this blocks (drums and/or audio) with the track sequencer.

There are so many options !

I think this is how it works:

Record the parts for the verse in tracks 1-24
Assign parts to pad 1

Record parts for the chorus in tracks 1-24
Assign to pad 2

Repeat up to 8 times for 8 pads

The pads are like 8 additional tracks...
instead of additional parts to each track

The pads play drums

and

Can contain whole layered musical parts
(phrases - like a verse, chorus, etc)
That can be chained into a Sequence

It's this song building ability that intrigues me...
I don't care that much about the drums...
But I bet they are going to sound NICE anyway...like the EFFECTS did...

It's starting to come together in my head...

There are 24tracks for all parts - and each part can be triggered via the corresponding pad.

The lamp for each part shows in addition to the well known red=record, green=playback -> yellow for loop.

So there is 1 track sequence for the entire project? If you go into the track sequence for track 1 and 2, does it show the same? Or are they separate?

Say you record 3 tracks, each one with you saying, "1", "2", "3" using the microphone. Then you want to make it so your project plays back, "1 1 1 1, 2 2, 1 1, 3 3 3 3", how do you do it? Do you go into the sequencer and put 4 dots for track 1? Or can you set it to loop and hold it down for 4 counts? Then for the other parts is it all in the same sequencer? Or do you sequence them on 4 separate sequencers then combine them somehow?

Yes, there is ONE track sequencer for all 24 pads (samples, loops, rhythms) - with only ONE sequence per project.

You can set it up like this:



It's possible to play any number of the 24 pad's at the same time e.g.



I don't think it's a good idea but it's possible to assign 24 drum sound to the pads and then program a pattern with the track sequencer.
Btw. the number of drum sounds at the same time is limited - so we can not play 24 drum sounds at the same time - but it's possible to play 24 wave files (of drums or whatever) at the same time.


The 'x' - in the examples above - can be:
-a single shot of a wave file
-the start of a multi measure drum pattern
-a wave file played in a loop

For each of the 24 tracks can be selected:
1) Any audio file in your project
2) 'New Take' to record a fresh audio file
3) One of the 511 drum patterns
4) Loops provided by Zoom via the included USB stick
(or any other usb stick containing wave files)
5) Audio files from other projects

All these can be played:
1) as recorded
2) in loop mode

In case you set it up for loop mode - then you have these options for the pads:
1) 1Shot
2) Gate
3) Repeat

To set tracks to loop there is no need for the track sequencer - simply set the track to loop mode set the parameters (like start and length) and let it loop ;-)

The 'track sequencer' is called track sequencer since all it does is chaining up the content of the tracks in a sequence. Unlike the 'songs' in the old days (with only one pattern after another) can these track sequences play 24 tracks at the same time.

Thanks I understand now. The rhythm patterns are only for triggering the built-in drumkits then. I was confused before thinking maybe the sampler and built-in drums were more similar, and you could create patterns for your own custom samples too, and they'd behave the same as drumkit patterns. But now I see they seem to be separate.

Now I'm just curious how people plan on using this. Who were they targeting by adding this feature?

Armin - thank you so much for your contribution to this post. You are making the R24 sound like a real advancement on the R16.

Can you please answer the following for me in basic terms?

Am I right in thinking that it is now possible to assign a whole rhythm phrase to a pad? For example a drum phrase ,bass phrase and backing guitar phrase so that when a pad is triggered that whole ensemble will play? And if so will they all play on individual tracks so they can be edited or am i way off the mark here?

What I was thinking was can you construct an intro, verse, chorus, bridge and outro for example on 5 different pads and trigger them at will so to speak?

many thanks in advance.

So the pads do correspond to each track when in pattern or sample mode...
24 tracks and 24 pads.

Then, in sequence mode, you have only 8 pads to use to assemble multitrack phrases.
Or do you also have 24 pad "slots"...

Thanks a bunch Armin for chiming in. We still need clarification however on uses that perhaps you haven't tried in beta testing...

I think I get it though...you have up to 24 tracks to work with for any "phrase".
Assign what you like to a pad. Then record (bounce) the whole thing to track 1 and use pad 1 to trigger it. Then unassign tracks 2-24 and begin work on the next "phrase"...

But if you bounce to stereo, the pads won't line up...so the pads are separate from the tracks...

The pads will only play sounds that are residing in one of the 24 tracks it seems. If you have a sound playing on a pad from say track 23, and you unassign that sound from track 23, that sound will no longer be heard when you press the pad.

(random thoughts...and guesses only...do not assume any of this is correct)

You can assign a rhythm pattern - consisting of up to 16 drum instruments (two bank a 8 sounds) - or any wave file you like.
For your example you have two options:
assign your drums, bass, backing guitar to 3 tracks (pads) and trigger them all at the same time.
(press the three pad at the same time - or program them into the track sequence)
btw. in case you need stereo backing tracks then you need 6 tracks - but only the odd slider/pad will work.
or
bounce the drums,bass and backing guitar track to a new stereo track and then assign it to one pad.
(here you have to press one pad only)

yes


You have 3 banks a 8 pads - one pad for each track.
In sequence mode can you trigger any combination of the 24 pads at any time-slot.


yes


Stereo tracks use two sliders and two pads - you have to set them to 'stereo link mode' and then only the odd slider and pad work.


yes

BINGO!!!! PERFECT!!! THANKS!!!!

What happens if you trigger a track's .wav file during recording on another track? I think it would play like normal, and not interfere with the other recording at all. What if you are bouncing to another track and trigger the track with the pad? I think it should play, but also be recorded to the track that's being bounced to.

It's only possible to sequence the track samples by either manually entering the points in the graphical sequencer, or by recording in the track sequencer and hitting them in time, right? But, while playing the track sequence, and recording to it, the rest of the project does not play, or does it? Like, is it possible to record a sequence using the pads while also hearing the rest play back?

Please everyone, don't scream at me for asking this question again. I'm hoping the answer will be different with the r24

Jamon,

Have you had a chance to see if the r24 does the same thing as thr r16 when punching in on the fly while mixing down to the master tracks? (i.e. creates a new master track everytime you punch in). U.S. support has not been able to give me a definitive answer - they are working on it. I've got $500 burning a hole in my pocket, so I'm hoping (praying) you can tell me the gliche is fixed.
Shureman

p.s. I know the r24 manual indicates that a new master file is created with each punch in, but the r16 manual was wrong, so maybe the r24's manual is wrong too. Would you be kind enough too check it out for me.

Uh oh, we've got trouble!

Before the R24 seemed to be actually shipping in the US it was listed at many online stores for $499. I was watching their listings to see which ones showed them in stock, and which dates the others showed for expected arrival. Then I found it on AbesOfMaine.com for $459. This was the lowest price I'd seen, and that company offers a coupon I had access to through an affiliate program.

I posted details on my website to help people save $50. Since it's part of the affiliate program, I'd also get a % of each sale referred through my site. It seemed like a win-win situation, and I replied to the thread here about whether or not it's worth $100 more than the R16, hoping anyone ordering now would see it and use the link rather than have to needlessly spend the extra $50.

But I've never ordered anything from Abe's of Maine before, so I didn't feel right about sharing the idea of purchasing through them to save the $50 when I did not know factually if that was even true. Why should I just trust their claim? For all I know it's a scam, and I was falling into it helping people get caught up in it. So to feel right about it, I had to test it on myself to be sure.

On July 15th I clicked through my site, and followed the procedure I prescribed, to see how it actually works in practice. Everything seemed legit. It showed the $459 price, with the special $10 discount, making it $449 with free shipping. I got my receipt through email, with a link to monitor the status of the order. On July 19th my bank account showed $449 withdrawn, and the tracking status showed, "Sent to Warehouse".

Today is July 23rd, over a week since ordering, and the other sites like zZounds are now showing it In Stock. So it should ship now, right? I clicked the link to see if Abe's of Maine updated any info about the R24, and, nothing! It's gone. I searched, I looked on the affiliate page for the link, I checked the exact old URL that used to work, it's all gone, no trace. Not only is the R24 gone, but the R16 is too. It's like they just decided not to sell the R-series anymore, but the H4n is still for sale.

So, now I'm going to email them to figure out what's up. But in the meantime, I've removed the buy-link from my R24 page. If it turns out they're not selling them anymore, then at least I was the only one who ordered through that link, so I'm the only one affected. I'll just get my money back, and figure out what to do next. But, it's another example how nothing is free, and if one place is cheaper than all the others, you have to really look into it and be willing to take a risk, because it could be a scam, or mistake, or some other expense involved.

Clarence, maybe Armin can test that for you? I'm not sure who else has the R24. They didn't seem to actually be shipping in the USA until recently, so it doesn't seem many people have one yet. Next week for sure we should have lots more answers about that and everything.

Wow, that sucks, Jamon! I hope you don't have to go through hassles to get your money back. If you used PayPal, they can be pretty good about just crediting your account and then chasing after the vendor - that helped me out with an eBay purchase gone bad. If you used a credit card, you can go through the issuing bank if necessary. But hopefully AbesOfMaine cares enough about their reputation to just issue a refund and an apology and you can be on your way.

One way or another you'll get your money back, even if you have to go through the Better Business Bureau. But here you are, ready to play with a new toy and you'll have to wait for this situation to be resolved.

Good luck!

Yeah, I emailed them and right before you replied I received a notice from PayPal:



Maybe they'll email me to explain what happened, but it seems they won't be selling the R24.