Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

Hi,
I just bought a new R16 from Amazon. I'm new to recording using a multitrack recorder, but I did see a post here with a similar problem.
I have a Shure SM57 mic and Samson HP10 headphones. My mic and guitar are plugged directly into the R16 and can't be heard unless the gain is all the way up (I've tried every input) and the headphone volume is all the way up. But even then, they're still barely audible. I've tried uploading some recorded tracks onto my computer too, and the recordings are also barely audible, so I dont know if it's the input, output, or both that have really low audio levels. Or could it be because the mic and guitar are plugged directly into the R16?

Sorry if this isn't enough information, but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John

Hi Hitlistradio,

I had exactly the same problem at the beginning (but it may be something different for you) :

I use my R16 as a "stand-alone" recording device, but also as a "sound card" for the PC and a "control surface" for Reaper.
I am far from beeing an expert, but there is a dark grey button that is labelled "DIRECT / DAW" that sets the amount of signal that goes to your Headset/Monitor Output or to your DAW (Reaper for me).
If that button is for example turned to "DAW" as you use the R16 as a standalone device, you will hardly hear anything even if the gain is max, the sliders at 0db, the volumes of headsets and monitor at their maximum, the red slider at 0db ... you won't get any sound or just a little bit of sound if the Gray button is not completely on one of the sides.
Can you check if it does something to turn this button ?

Now when I use my R16 as a sound card, I set the output volume behind the unit at 80% and use the dark grey button to set the volume (as it is on the top of the R16 and not behind !!)

Hope that helps. Sorry for my poor english as I am french,
Philippe

Presuming a passive guitar, it should be connected to a jack with high impedance switch ON... On the R16, that's only input #1.

A Shure Dynamic microphone should be usable on any input.... Are you recording "on-mic" or "off-mic"? (within an inch or two from it or something more like 8+ inches from it)

Did the Peak LEDs ever flicker? If a hand clap from an inch away doesn't result in a Peak flicker for the microphone, and the gain is full up, I'd say there is a problem in the input section (on the R16, with its fixed input<>track assignments, the input Gain controls are also the record level control -- on routable units [HDx, BOSS BR series] the gain controls only control the relative input levels, and a separate record level is used to control the sum of the inputs [which route to just one armed track, two for stereo]).

ALL faders should start at 0dB (near the top of the scale) unless the LED level meter is hitting red (Zoom doesn't document when red illuminates -- BOSS has finer gradations on the level meter, and the peak LEDs start at -6dB).

Turn off all effects to avoid compounding things with the effect output level.

If you are not using it as an audio interface (ie, standalone recorder) the top "balance control" should just be affecting the mix level between the master output fader and the metronome clicks... (it is not meant to be an output level control -- full left means Master out only, full right means metronome only -- and page 15 seems to imply that it only applies to the "phones only" setting of the metronome switch; I suspect that is in error, looking at page 34). In audio interface mode, the balance control adjusts the balance of the "to DAW" (Direct) signal against the "from DAW" (DAW) signal. The rear knob is the proper knob for headphone output level.

Hi - how does one know if a guitar is passive or not?

Does it have a battery holder? Batteries mean active preamp, and should work with any input. No batteries -- high impedance.

Telecaster/Stratocaster, look-alikes -- passive... Taylor T-5 - I'm pretty sure that's active... Ovation, and other acoustics with pick-ups are active.

Thank you for the replies.
I tried turning to both Direct and DAW. I have an Ovation, and had the high impedance switch on and off. The guitar seems to be loud enough now. All faders are at 0db. The mic still seems quiet though. I can't hear my voice through the headphones unless the gain is past 75% (this is within an inch or 2 from the mic). The peak LED lights up with a hand clap at max gain, but ONLY at max gain and within a few inches from the mic. Since the guitar levels seem to be fine, I'm wondering now if it's the mic..or if I just don't know how loud it should be. Recording the guitar with the gain less than 50% and the mic gain close to max, the guitar still overpowers the vocals. Should a Shure SM57 be able to be heard through headphones easily with the gain less than 75% directly plugged in? I'm using the R16 as a standalone as well.

Active guitar pre-amp likely means the output is close to line-level (I don't have exact specifications) so having the input gain down is to be expected (full counter-clockwise is theoretically pure line-level, though there may be some margin for equipment with "hot" outputs). In contrast, a dynamic microphone should be need near full (clockwise).

Are you using balanced (XLR, maybe TRS) or unbalanced (TS) connectors with the microphone. Simple XLR->TS connectors just short the S- line to ground, which could mean that half the signal is lost. (As you can tell, I'm doing a lot of hypothesizing here).


Okay -- just ran a test...

Shure PG57 XLR (the entry level series, my PG58 is boxed up somewhere -- I have a pair of 57s which is why one is out in the open). At two fingers width from my mouth, with input gain at maximum, the level meters tend to solid orange while I'm speaking, with some flickers on the peak LED. With the gain dropped by just over a "pointer width" (fast drop off), I avoid red while my lips are almost brushing the microphone grill.

You have a hot guitar... My Ovation CSE44, with new battery (and snapping the plastic safety retainer on the pre-amp <G>), short TS instrument cable, and all guitar controls* at neutral required (let's see... full clockwise is ~5 o'clock) nearly 2 o'clock to reach solid orange with peak LED only flickering on a hard chord strum. Setting track 1 (microphone) L50 and track 2 R50 (guitar) the guitar was still noticeably ... bright? ... in headphones. But then -- I don't have a singing voice, more of a bass-baritone frog...



* OP30 pre-amp; chromatic tuner, 3-band switchable EQ, two-position pre-shape, and two-position mid-shift; EQ off.

I have XLR cables for the mic.
My R16 was actually a bundle: http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-Stand-Alone-Multitrack-Recorder-Bundle/dp/B0035XQ0KI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1279951536&sr=8-1
I'm just using whatever's in that bundle, plus my Ovation and Shure Sm57.
At two fingers width from my mouth and max input gain for the mic, I'm not getting solid orange or the peak while I'm talking.
While I'm using the headphones, I can hear myself through the mic, but it's hard to hear. This is in a quiet room too.
By the way, thank you for all the time and detail you're putting into this

Interesting...

The main page says "Sonic Sense" but if you click the technical details link the seller suddenly becomes "Unique Squared"... The type of thing I'd expect from a shady camera dealer (DBA under five or so different names).

They have to be making a profit somewhere... Considering retail for four 20ft XLR cables of medium quality would be $60, and I'd expect about the same for instrument cables. That's over a $100 if the cables are good quality.

If you have a continuity checker (or VOM), see if any of the pins on the XLR are routed to multiple spots (if a pin at one end has continuity to two pins at the other, the cables aren't balanced XLR -- they've likely done the simple TS type conversion, grounding the S- lead, which could cut the signal in half).

wow, hmm.. I dont have a continuity checker unfortunately. I will try out another XLR cable then. Hopefully it all works out. Thanks again!

You might try to upgrade the ROM (aka system software). I swear I had a similar problem with levels before I upgraded to 1.20. (I also bought through Amazon.) Detailed instructions on upgrading the ROM (and checking your current version) here: http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/download/software/r16.php

My microphone requires phantom power (the SM57 does not), and I have to crank the gain all the way over to "Mic" or pretty close to get a good signal.

-Matt

On the other hand, I have some Audio-Technica AT2020s (condenser - phantom power) and an Audix i5 (dynamic - no phantom) that I plug directly into the R16 and usually don't have to crank past about the 2:00 or 3:00 position on the gain knob for vocals or piano - and maybe about 1:00 when doing drums.