R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by selbalicious » Fri May 25, 2012 10:11 pm

Read this post and follow it to the letter and you'll have PLENTY of gain:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16794

OR...simply take your .wav file on the computer and pull it into Audacity (freeware) and use the menu item Effect, then choose Amplify and it will automatically calculate what it will take to basically "normalize" the .wav file so that it is as loud as it can be WITHOUT clipping.

But I'd still look at the above post and try to use the Boost16 preset that you create because ultimately, following that little tutorial will make you very intimately familiar with your R16 (or whichever R-series recorder you have).
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by tornado » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 pm

Hi Kevin,

thanks again for your instructions - but this is too hard for me. :oops:
I don't know if there is any german who is able to use the zoom r16 in a way as you do...

I think the only solution is to put it in cubase and my husband introduces me to apply it in a professional way - some years later or how long it takes......

Best regards

Tornado
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by selbalicious » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:07 pm

You can TOTALLY "normalize" the file within Cubase such that you get a nice loud waveform. You'll need to click the waveform on the track to "select" it, and then there should be a menu item for "normalize". This will get the volume back.
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by Bobw70 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:26 pm

Can anyone view or download the JPG file Tou posted in this thread on Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:50 pm ? I'd like to view and download it but cannot see it the JPG shows an X icon only.

Thanks BobW
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by selbalicious » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:54 am

This forum went through what appeared (to my eyes anyway) some type of catastrophic event. As such, I noticed that many of the attached .jpg's are now gone/broken. Don't know if it can be fixed.
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by Bobw70 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:53 pm

Ok, Thanks Kevin, no big deal. The best way to learn the R16 is to read Kevin's excellent tutorial then just experiment w/ the R16. :^: It's all beginning to make sense now.

BobW
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by selbalicious » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:26 pm

Pictures added back (yay!). Also put links to the source documents at the very beginning of the 1st post (again...yay...and again I say....yay).

Enjoy!
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by BitsStream » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:15 pm

I have a recording background and just purchased a R24, Kevin your tutorial was awesome and made it a piece of cake to record, mix and master all within the R24 in a mater of minutes. You should call it the Manual Zoom forgot to include!
By the way the effects send, return and inserts remind me of the effects section on lots of synths I use to program during the 90's. You really had to under stand the flow and how they worked as you had limited use of different effects and inserts and master effects, so your diagrams where perfect.
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by selbalicious » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:26 am

Glad you liked it! And I personally like my new avatar...somehow my old one broke??
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by New Day » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:32 pm

selbalicious wrote:And I personally like my new avatar...somehow my old one broke??
Your old one was very fitting, but I'm with ya: The new one rocks too.
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by Levo-artist » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:05 pm

I am grateful to Kevin Selby for providing some comprehensible text on the Zoom R16. Zoom Corp. could have done a much better job with their Operator Manual.
I'm a newbie to the R16 and home recording. My Operator Manual is dog-eared and coffee stained already despite my never having figured out how to use the effects. And I have a masters degree in engineering ! I like complicated things explained to me !
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by NotDarkYet » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:31 am

I'm new to this so let's see if I have got this right.

INSERT EFFECTS:

1. You must always actively choose the source. Input OR Track.
2. When recording, you must actively choose whether the effect will be included (Wet), OR not (Dry), in the recording.
3. Can be applied to master track.

SEND/RETUR EFFECTS:

1. If the effect is on, it is always on regardless if you listen to an input OR track.
2. It will never be wet ("burnt") into a track unless the effect is on when you are bouncing to another track OR mixing down to Master.
3. Cannot be applied to master track.
4. Its primary use is to give the singer or instrumentalist a more pleasant (wet) sound to listen to in their headset during recording.
5. It can be used for mixing to a bounce track or mastering but for that purpose the insert effects are better.
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by selbalicious » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:18 pm

Man I hope I remember enough of this to get my answers straight:

INSERT EFFECTS:

1. You must always actively choose the source. Input OR Track.
Correct.
2. When recording, you must actively choose whether the effect will be included (Wet), OR not (Dry), in the recording.
Correct.
3. Can be applied to master track.
Correct. In fact, if you create the Boost16 preset (a vanilla flavored type of "brick-wall limiter" thingey), this is EXACTLY what you use it for. You basically use it to make your master track as "hot" as possible without clipping (but ya gotta be careful cuz Boost16 is not a "real" "look-ahead" brick wall limiter...but it's reasonably "good enough" for this).

SEND/RETURN EFFECTS:

1. If the effect is on, it is always on regardless if you listen to an input OR track.
Correct. And what's cool about this is that in your recording process, you really don't want to fuss with effects (at least *I* don't!). I just want to set things, forget them, and get on with the business of laying down tracks. Send/Return effects are perfect for this.
2. It will never be wet ("burnt") into a track unless the effect is on when you are bouncing to another track OR mixing down to Master.
Correct!
3. Cannot be applied to master track.
Partially correct. You actually got it right in Bullet 2 above. In a way, when you bounce to Master (with Send/Return effects turned on and all that) you have "applied" them to the Master track. But I understand what you're trying to say. You're comparing it to how an Insert effect can be "applied" to a track and has a specific "Wet/Dry" setting for either "burning in" or not.
4. Its primary use is to give the singer or instrumentalist a more pleasant (wet) sound to listen to in their headset during recording.
Correct. Think of the Send/Return effects as an "environment" or "room" for your tracks to live in.
5. It can be used for mixing to a bounce track or mastering but for that purpose the insert effects are better.
Hmmmm...I would say each type of effect (Send/Return vs. Insert) have their "place" in their usages, and they CAN be swapped in certain cases, depending on what you're trying to accomplish, so I wouldn't necessarily be adamant about "insert effects are better". It just depends on the application and what you're trying to do.

Summary (by Kevin):
Insert effects are "usually" (but not always) used for "specialty" things you want to do to an INDIVIDUAL instrument or vocal track. The one time an Insert effect can sort of "act" more like a send/return (i.e., an "environment") effect is when you use it for Mastering (i.e., the Boost16 mastering preset - available on this board somewhere (too lazy to look it up)).

Send/Return effects are "usually" (but don't have to be!) used for the "environment" that your tracks "live" in. And by environment I mean usually you setup a "room" (reverb) and maybe some chorus or delay (like slap-back echo) for vocals. Your tracks then "live" inside this Send/Return environment all nice and cozy. The Send/Return effects are usually NOT expected to be used for "specialty" types of situations...but you COULD use them that way if you wish.

And this post concludes my involvement with this particular forum. I have purchased not one, but TWO new mixers (one of which I have talked about/mused about before on this forum and the other is brand new). I'm giving my R16 to a very nice guitarist in the next town (as part of my evil plot to get him to play more with me in a band...muahahahahaha!).

I'll post a "farewell" post on the top level forum and say goodbye to y'all. Briefly: this forum is, hands down, the BEST and nicest forum I have ever been involved in. No trolls, nice people, talented people all trying to help each other figure this here Zoom equipment out. Believe me when I say I have been on forums that are just plain MEAN (yeah...Motifator...I'm lookin' at YOU) where folks are just jerks. Not so here. May you keep that sweet peace alive in the overall "vibe" of this forum.

Sincerely,

Kevin B. Selby
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by adhdrum » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:07 pm

Thanks very much for taking time to bring clarity to this abstract application. I've been working on insert effects for weeks and wish I had read your post first.

Very lucid and helpful,

adhdrum
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by xelaris » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:51 am

Hi there...can't download any of the files - where can I find them?
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by selbalicious » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:06 pm

An EXCELLENT question!
When I put all that up, I was using kevinselby.com to host the files. I then went "offline" for awhile.
I'm now back "online", but I need to go find that "stuff" and fix the links and all that.

Will try to do that this week.
Sorry for the inconvenience.

K
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Re: R16-Tutorial-Send/Return effects VS. Insert effect

Post by xelaris » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:46 am

selbalicious wrote:An EXCELLENT question!
When I put all that up, I was using kevinselby.com to host the files. I then went "offline" for awhile.
I'm now back "online", but I need to go find that "stuff" and fix the links and all that.

Will try to do that this week.
Sorry for the inconvenience.

K
No need to be sorry and thanks a lot for such an informative post (I just copy and paste the relevant bits).
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