Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Discuss the Zoom HD and R series. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
User avatar
michaelmucklow
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:05 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by michaelmucklow » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:02 pm

Hi All,

Maybe only Kevin will remember me; I started the long dead http://www.zr16.com website back when the R16 came out. I was really excited about that product but never purchased one, tough financial times in '09 kept that from happening.

Well, this past weekend I became the owner of an R24 and I'm very happy with it!

Primarily I was looking for something more portable than my laptop + mixer + external HD + mouse + big screen + guitars + etc, when traveling to/from California for visiting the kids and grandkids. We like to stay for 2-4 weeks so I take my recording setup with me, partly because my son-n-law and I are in the process of recording an album together. I'm tired of hauling all that stuff back-n-forth in our small car (I had a guitar top crack on one trip). So I began the search and it actually came down to the Tascam DP-008; I found a used one that I could afford since the R24 was out of my price range. However, there's a Music-Go-Round near where I live to which I took in a guitar to trade and...guess what...they had a used R24 for which I did a straight across trade!

The R24 is gonna be MUCH easier to haul around than all that other stuff! - What I will do is import any existing tracks from my computer into the R24, go to wherever, record, then import the newly recorded tracks into my computer (I use Reaper as my DAW) and continue on mixing and mastering. Sweet!!!

As one other newbie has said...this unit will be around my home studio for a long time to come.

When you consider the products Zoom have come out with over the years they've truly made some great stuff, much of it far ahead of it's time. I still have my PS-04 and will never get rid of it; although I don't record with it I still use the FX.

Glad to be part of this community.

Michael
0 x
Fingerstyle Guitarist & Award Winning Composer
Zoom R8, H4n, H2, H1, AC-2, MS-50G
REAPER | MacBook Pro | Beyerdynamic DT 770
Yamaha SLG200N & SLG200S | Epiphone Les Paul Studio

User avatar
selbalicious
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 1233
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:01 am
Location: Kennewick, WA

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by selbalicious » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:08 pm

Yay! I dimly remember the zr16 site. That was in the early days indeed!

I'm so unbelievably glad you joined the crowd for realz! Now get out there and start recording like the madman you are!

I'm reading "Atlas Shrugged" (Ayn Rand) right now and regardless of one's particular political or societal views, the story is just darned inspiring. I hold Zoom right up there with the greats in the realm of elegant design of musical instruments. It's funny...your first look at an R16 or R24 is that you scratch your head and wonder if it's some kind of child's toy (well...I guess that's partially true since we're a bunch of children and we love our musical toys!)...but seriously...you think it's "cheap" and all the other insults that have been hurled at it. And then...the dawn of enlightenment...you actually use it. And all its elegance and beauty shine forth. And a huge smile envelops your face as you go on to conquer whatever musical mountain is in your vision.

Pfff....I'm getting melodramatic...but you get the drift. Love me these Zoom toys.
0 x
Kevin B. Selby
https://www.facebook.com/TheJKDuo/ <-- Live Performance
http://kevinselby.com <-- Original Music (free downloads if you're smart enough to hack the music player...HAH!)

User avatar
gofishduo
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 1472
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Eyre Peninsula, Australia

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by gofishduo » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:28 pm

Hi Michael...welcome to the group! Hope you have heaps of great times with your Zoom equipment!.......sideshow bob
0 x

tls11823
Jedi
Jedi
Posts: 778
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA, USA

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by tls11823 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:27 am

michaelmucklow wrote:What I will do is import any existing tracks from my computer into the R24, go to wherever, record, then import the newly recorded tracks into my computer (I use Reaper as my DAW) and continue on mixing and mastering. Sweet!!!
Sweet, indeed, and I think that's a great work flow for the type of remote work you described. I've done that with great success with my R16. Reaper is an amazing tool at an amazing price - I switched from Sonar a couple of years ago and haven't looked back.

However, if there are times that you'll be working from home, in an environment where you can have your computer and R24 connected, you may want to consider using the R24 in audio interface mode. That's what I do almost exclusively, and I couldn't be happier. The R recorders in standalone mode are nice enough, but things can get a bit clunky when dealing with wheels, buttons, and a tiny screen as your primary interface. Try it with a keyboard and mouse, along with a nice GUI representation of your tracks sometime and you'll find yourself able to focus on the recording rather than spending minutes just naming and assigning tracks. Don't get me wrong - you can easily get by in standalone mode, and for your remote work, that's probably best. But after months of doing it that way, I was floored the first time I hooked up my R16 in interface mode. So much so that I went out and bought a laptop for remote and home-based recording. The only time I use standalone mode anymore is if I'm going to be doing something simple, like laying down one or two tracks to fill out an existing recording. I wouldn't even think of it for anything more complex - life's just too short.

With that said, there are plenty of folks here that live and love the standalone life, and it works well for them. Try both ways and see what works for you. But most importantly, get out there and get caught up with all the recording you haven't been doing for the last several years. And have a great time making great music!

Welcome to the obsession. :stick:
0 x
[color=#4000FF][i]I reject your reality and substitute my own
--Adam Savage--[/i][/color]

User avatar
michaelmucklow
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:05 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by michaelmucklow » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:11 pm

selbalicious wrote:Pfff....I'm getting melodramatic...but you get the drift. Love me these Zoom toys.
:lol: Maybe a little...but I agree. I remember when Alesis was the new-kid-on-the-block innovating company, but Zoom definitely surpasses them. True, first look at any of the 'R' boxes with their plastic cases will say "cheap"; but in reality hardly anybody is making recorders with metal cases. Besides, how many people toss around their recording gear? It's always required careful handling. Yeah, Zoom comes up with some leading innovative ideas and I hope they'll continue doing it. For those of us adventurous enough to explore...Zoom gear will be 'our little secret'.
gofishduo wrote:Hi Michael...welcome to the group! Hope you have heaps of great times with your Zoom equipment!
Thanks Bob! I'm sure I will. I've already been laying tracks down both in standalone and interface modes. This box really is a great unit!
tls11823 wrote:Sweet, indeed, and I think that's a great work flow for the type of remote work you described. I've done that with great success with my R16. ...you may [also] want to consider using the R24 in audio interface mode.
TLS, for sure the R24 is an excellent audio interface (it replaces an Alesis MultiMix4). I get my tracks right into Reaper, no problem. :D When sketching out some guitar compositions I really like the ability to have the R24 anywhere in my house, simply plug in a record the ideas; so much easier and quicker that going to the computer. For my solo fingerstyle stuff I will probably use just the R24 to record then txfr to computer for final touches.

I do also like the controller aspect of the R24, though I use it less than I could. For me the only drawback - not a negative - is in switching fader banks while mixing. My brain perceives it as I will always be adjusting faders, never finalizing a mix, because of bank switching. Unless I'm missing something here - and I'm not asking Zoom for motorized faders - I will probably stay with using the mouse in mix mode.


Michael
0 x
Fingerstyle Guitarist & Award Winning Composer
Zoom R8, H4n, H2, H1, AC-2, MS-50G
REAPER | MacBook Pro | Beyerdynamic DT 770
Yamaha SLG200N & SLG200S | Epiphone Les Paul Studio

tls11823
Jedi
Jedi
Posts: 778
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA, USA

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by tls11823 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:57 pm

michaelmucklow wrote:I do also like the controller aspect of the R24, though I use it less than I could. For me the only drawback - not a negative - is in switching fader banks while mixing. My brain perceives it as I will always be adjusting faders, never finalizing a mix, because of bank switching. Unless I'm missing something here - and I'm not asking Zoom for motorized faders - I will probably stay with using the mouse in mix mode.
I don't see the R recorders as being useful as control surfaces. There aren't enough ways to control the DAW, and I find myself reaching for the keyboard or mouse for most things, so why not do everything that way? I don't even keep my R16 on the same table as my computer peripherals. Also, with Reaper you can use the mouse wheel to control faders and other controls. I actually prefer that to moving my hand from one fader to another and tweaking things - and that's even before talking about the bank-switching situation you've already mentioned.
0 x
[color=#4000FF][i]I reject your reality and substitute my own
--Adam Savage--[/i][/color]

Curly Wurly
been here a while
been here a while
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:15 am

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by Curly Wurly » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:09 pm

tls11823 wrote:
michaelmucklow wrote:I actually prefer that to moving my hand from one fader to another and tweaking things - and that's even before talking about the bank-switching situation you've already mentioned.
This is interesting to me atm - Just a muse....

Recently, my "workflow method" has been sample based i.e. I record snatches of guitar and bass, trim in the R24 and then import / arrange in Cubase.
This is great, I get the basic Chorus ideas down, mess about in Cubase and all is good. However, after listening to it for a while, I want to record some more (e.g. the Verse).
So.... this means I go back to the R24 and record another track (in another bank), hook up the USB again and import the new WAV into Cubase. This is fine but it does feel a bit clunky.

What I'm wondering now is if I should just go the whole hog and use the R24 in ASIO mode - so that it supports this workflow more.

Just wondering if anyone else has gone through this and did the Asio route?
Loving it really - how the R24 is making me re-think how I want to do things!
0 x

User avatar
michaelmucklow
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:05 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by michaelmucklow » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:14 pm

tls11823 wrote:I don't see the R recorders as being useful as control surfaces.
True; it is quite limited in the controller functionality. I do use the Stop and Play buttons, but the fader aspect doesn't work with my brain unless the song I'm mixing has eight or less tracks for which I don't need to switch banks. I've been using a DAW (Reaper) since the beginning of 2010 so I'm used to moving faders with a mouse - though I am old-school and would love the real deal.

I could only imagine, even with having programmer experience, that setting up an 'R' machine to control a DAW would be quite an undertaking...sooooo many parameters. Everything else about the R24 is great! :) And I can't think of any other company/product to match.

Michael
0 x
Fingerstyle Guitarist & Award Winning Composer
Zoom R8, H4n, H2, H1, AC-2, MS-50G
REAPER | MacBook Pro | Beyerdynamic DT 770
Yamaha SLG200N & SLG200S | Epiphone Les Paul Studio

User avatar
michaelmucklow
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:05 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by michaelmucklow » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:32 pm

Curly Wurly wrote:Just wondering if anyone else has gone through this and did the Asio route?
Hi Curly,

I'm using the R24 in standalone mode for sketching out ideas (on the guitar/bass/etc) then, like you, importing the tracks into the DAW where I will work out the idea to completion. I really like this workflow because I can quickly and easily record ideas without having to power up all the other gear. And I may even go back-n-forth a few times with the .WAV files but I don't mind the "clunkiness", especially when I think about the old days of cassette 4- or 8-trackers.

I am also using the R24 as an audio interface when the composition I've worked on is ready for the actual guitar/bass/etc tracks, replacing the scratch tracks I've been working from; or the tracks are new to the composition. The R24 is a whisper quiet interface and works great; it replaced a noisy Alesis MultiMix4 I was using. Unless I take the R24 into some other room of the house, it sits with my computer always connected via USB. I would encourage you to hook it up as an interface.

Having gone through a bunch of gear over the 20+ years I've been recording at home, I seriously doubt I will purchase a different unit to accomplish what the R24 does.

Michael
0 x
Fingerstyle Guitarist & Award Winning Composer
Zoom R8, H4n, H2, H1, AC-2, MS-50G
REAPER | MacBook Pro | Beyerdynamic DT 770
Yamaha SLG200N & SLG200S | Epiphone Les Paul Studio

User avatar
m24p
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 1315
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by m24p » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:31 am

tls11823 wrote:I don't see the R recorders as being useful as control surfaces. There aren't enough ways to control the DAW, and I find myself reaching for the keyboard or mouse for most things, so why not do everything that way? I don't even keep my R16 on the same table as my computer peripherals. Also, with Reaper you can use the mouse wheel to control faders and other controls. I actually prefer that to moving my hand from one fader to another and tweaking things - and that's even before talking about the bank-switching situation you've already mentioned.
I don't know about you, but I can't simultaneously automate multiple effects parameters just using the mouse.
0 x
Hi Zoetrope! [url=http://soundcloud.com/m24p]Soundcloud[/url]

tls11823
Jedi
Jedi
Posts: 778
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA, USA

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by tls11823 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:08 am

m24p wrote:I don't know about you, but I can't simultaneously automate multiple effects parameters just using the mouse.
Granted, that's true. But I prefer to draw envelopes to accomplish what I'm doing if it's going to be complex at all. It allows me to plan ahead and use the GUI to help me out, and then tweak the parameters as I listen. If I know I want the panning to move from 60% left to 40% right over two bars, I just draw it that way. If I want to volume to increase by 2 dB at the same time, I draw that as well. I know many people prefer to do things live, but that's not the way my brain works. Plus, if I draw envelopes, I don't have to trust my reflexes to do it while my brain is focusing on the sound. I plan what I want it to do, and then it just does it for me.

Different strokes, I suppose.
0 x
[color=#4000FF][i]I reject your reality and substitute my own
--Adam Savage--[/i][/color]

User avatar
m24p
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 1315
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by m24p » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:25 pm

tls11823 wrote:
m24p wrote:I don't know about you, but I can't simultaneously automate multiple effects parameters just using the mouse.
Granted, that's true. But I prefer to draw envelopes to accomplish what I'm doing if it's going to be complex at all. It allows me to plan ahead and use the GUI to help me out, and then tweak the parameters as I listen. If I know I want the panning to move from 60% left to 40% right over two bars, I just draw it that way. If I want to volume to increase by 2 dB at the same time, I draw that as well. I know many people prefer to do things live, but that's not the way my brain works. Plus, if I draw envelopes, I don't have to trust my reflexes to do it while my brain is focusing on the sound. I plan what I want it to do, and then it just does it for me.

Different strokes, I suppose.
Oh, I usually draw it in for just mixing or whatever. For performance and creative stuff I like having the option of playing it.

Here's one of the first things I did with the R16 when I got it working with a control surfaces: http://soundcloud.com/m24p/dub-experiments
0 x
Hi Zoetrope! [url=http://soundcloud.com/m24p]Soundcloud[/url]

User avatar
michaelmucklow
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:05 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by michaelmucklow » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:45 pm

tls11823 wrote:...I prefer to draw envelopes to accomplish what I'm doing if it's going to be complex at all. It allows me to plan ahead and use the GUI to help me out, and then tweak the parameters as I listen. If I know I want the panning to move from 60% left to 40% right over two bars, I just draw it that way. If I want to volume to increase by 2 dB at the same time, I draw that as well. Plus, if I draw envelopes, I don't have to trust my reflexes to do it while my brain is focusing on the sound. I plan what I want it to do, and then it just does it for me.
Since switching to using the computer for recording and mixing (in 2010) I too have gotten into making much use of these tools...especially during mixing. Now, I would not use anything but a computer for editing/mixing! 8) World of difference from the days of tiny windows on something like the R24.

But...being "old school"...I do still miss faders. :wacky:

- Michael
0 x
Fingerstyle Guitarist & Award Winning Composer
Zoom R8, H4n, H2, H1, AC-2, MS-50G
REAPER | MacBook Pro | Beyerdynamic DT 770
Yamaha SLG200N & SLG200S | Epiphone Les Paul Studio

gtaus
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:40 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by gtaus » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:05 pm

I used to use my HD16CD in control surface mode, and really liked the feel of faders at my fingertips. Twisting knobs and tweaking faders just feels good. However, I found myself having to use the computer mouse for so many functions, that after a period of time, I just decided to transfer all my files to the computer DAW and do everything by mouse/keyboard. That does not diminish the power of my Zoom recorder, in fact, I think it just makes it more valuable. My live tracks get recorded directly on the HD16, but the mixing and mastering are all done on the computer.

To the OP, Welcome to the Zoom family.
0 x

GV
senior member
senior member
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by GV » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:43 pm

Hi Michael, and Everyone else,
I read this thread with interest because I am just returning to using the R16 after having neglected it for quite a while, and because I have used the R16 as both a standalone recorder, and also as an audio interface for my Mac with GarageBand ( I also use Reaper a bit, but have not really got to grips with it fully yet).

I have some questions for you all based on the things that you have said.

tls11823, would you be able to say little about why you switched from Sonar to Reaper?

And for those of you who use the R16 to initially record tracks which you subsequently transfer to your computer DAW, how do you address the issue of synchronization with drum tracks (I realize that this is not an issue for those of you who use the R16/R24 as a 'sketch' tool)?

All the best,

GV.
0 x
"If The Beatles or the '60s had a message, it was 'Learn to Swim'. And once you've learned - Swim".
John Lennon

tls11823
Jedi
Jedi
Posts: 778
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA, USA

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by tls11823 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:44 am

GV wrote:tls11823, would you be able to say little about why you switched from Sonar to Reaper?
I was a happy Sonar user through 8.5.3 and was not looking to change. I was working with a friend to record songs and he wanted the ability to play with the mixes that we pulled from the R16, which we were using in standalone mode at the time. But he wasn't interested in getting involved the whole DAW thing more than necessary for his simple needs. I helped him look for alternatives. Audacity seemed OK, but it didn't work well on his computer (or mine) when there were more than a few tracks. In searching around for an alternative for him, I came across Reaper and downloaded it for evaluation. I was able to get him up and running and he was happy. He paid up and registered.

A few months later, he wanted help with some more advanced features. Being non-technical, he got stuck, so I dug into the manual for him and figured out what he needed. In the process I saw a lot of things I liked, and decided to give Reaper a try. I had a few criteria that needed to be satisfied before jumping ship:
- All of my plug-ins needed to work, or a suitable alternative needed to be included
- Performance had to be at least as good as with Sonar
- I needed to be able to move over old projects from Sonar to Reaper

So I moved over some old projects. I was able to work out Audio and - with a bit more effort - MIDI tracks. I was able to use most of my plug-ins. The only ones that didn't work were things that were licensed and/or designed to work with Sonar only. Everything else worked fine. To my extreme pleasure, performance was much better than with Sonar. Tracks that needed to be frozen under Sonar worked fine in Reaper without freezing or rendering. I was sold! In my experience, performance has rarely been a problem with Reaper.

I won't lie - there was a learning curve because of the different approaches. It took me a couple of months to get up to speed with Reaper so I could work through projects at the same speed as on Sonar. But once I was over that, I realized that I was much more productive. It's a much more open environment and incredibly flexible if you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty. The user community is second to none, and people are willing to share their ideas and accomplishments.

The only thing that Reaper doesn't provide for me is that there's no built-in score editor. But for the kind of work I'm doing now, that's not much of a setback. If necessary, you can plug into score editing software to do your editing, but I've adapted to Reaper's piano roll quite nicely for the times that I need to edit MIDI.

* * * * * * * * * *
* Edited to add: *
* * * * * * * * * *
Forgot to add: Money! Between the initial purchase and upgrades, I've sunk well over $1,000 into Sonar over the years. Since switching to Reaper in 2012 at release 3, I've invested a total of $60, which has included a major release and many minor releases. I won't have to pay again until they go to release 5. At that time it will cost me only $60, and then I'll be set until they go to release 7. Their policy allows you two major releases per license. That's a ton cheaper than Sonar.
0 x
[color=#4000FF][i]I reject your reality and substitute my own
--Adam Savage--[/i][/color]

GV
senior member
senior member
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Finally a Zoom Family Member!

Post by GV » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:29 am

Hi tls11823,
Many thanks for such a thorough, clear and wonderfully written response.

You are whetting my appetite regarding Reaper.

Thanks, once again,

GV
0 x
"If The Beatles or the '60s had a message, it was 'Learn to Swim'. And once you've learned - Swim".
John Lennon

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests