The R24 from a blind users perspective, some help please

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krister63
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The R24 from a blind users perspective, some help please

Post by krister63 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:27 am

Hi good people.
I have just purchased myself a brand new Zoom R24 and am now trying to come to grips with it and be friends with it too. My problem is a bit special so to speak, you see i am blind and therefor can't use the display and there doesn't seem to exist any screen reading solutions that can present the information in speech nor braille, however this i think is not a problem because the R24 seems to be quite usable due to it's quite logical layout. What i now try to do is get a feel for the menu system and all the buttons on the R24. It seems that the buttons open special menus, so there's no big menu where you easily could get lost as a blind person. As i say i'm trying to learn the ins and outs of this machine, but the problem i'm having is figuring out which buttons do what and the various menus associated with the respective buttons. I'm trying to read the manual but because of how my screen reader interprets the pdf, i get things like "Press to play then press and hold for rewind to end." No labels on buttons etc. What i would like to know is if there's a list of the buttons and their respective menus somewhere or if anyone has made such a list. Also i would like to know what the soft keys do in various situations. I have googled around to see if i could possibly find some info about this, but to no avail.
If anyone could help me with this i'd be grateful.
/Krister
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Wulfraed
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Re: The R24 from a blind users perspective, some help please

Post by Wulfraed » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:21 pm

<ouch>

I fear you are in for extreme frustration.

For example, the first step in setting up an input for recording is to adjust the GAIN control until the red PEAK LED just flickers... If you are using an insert effect, the next step is to adjust the "Patch level" of the effect to keep the record level meters around -6dB.

Selecting tracks requires pushing the track status keys for Off (mute), Red (armed for record), Green (playback)

The menu system tends to remember the last "page" used for a feature so -- for example -- if going to adjust the insert effect you have to remember what effect, if any, was in use in order to scroll through the collection. Effect algorithms have different menus with sub-menus (and the sub-menus only appear if the stage in the algorithm is turned on).

A lot of the manual is based upon graphical illustrations of the display -- not text that a reader can interpret (unless that reader can also do optical character recognition of 5 by 8 dot matrix letters). The transport control deck doesn't have text labels -- it uses variations of common "VCR" icons: triangles (which I'll represent as less-than "<" and greater-than ">").

Rewind <<
Fast-forward >>
Stop [] (square)
Play >
Record O (circle)

Rewind to beginning is Hold [] and press <<

The set start marker button is |<< and end marker is >>|
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krister63
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Re: The R24 from a blind users perspective, some help please

Post by krister63 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:48 am

Wulfraed wrote:<ouch>

I fear you are in for extreme frustration.

For example, the first step in setting up an input for recording is to adjust the GAIN control until the red PEAK LED just flickers... If you are using an insert effect, the next step is to adjust the "Patch level" of the effect to keep the record level meters around -6dB.

None of this should really present a problem. I use my ears to hear if the signal is distorted.

Selecting tracks requires pushing the track status keys for Off (mute), Red (armed for record), Green (playback)

No problems there either, since when a track is armed, the mike/line kicks in so that i can hear the instrument on the track i want to record, that way i know the track is armed, that's how it seems to be set up as default anyways.

The menu system tends to remember the last "page" used for a feature so -- for example -- if going to adjust the insert effect you have to remember what effect, if any, was in use in order to scroll through the collection. Effect algorithms have different menus with sub-menus (and the sub-menus only appear if the stage in the algorithm is turned on).

That can present a slight problem, because as you say you'll have to remember what effecgt you have on, but that is often audible so i hear what effect i have on, unless it's very, very subtle.

A lot of the manual is based upon graphical illustrations of the display -- not text that a reader can interpret (unless that reader can also do optical character recognition of 5 by 8 dot matrix letters). The transport control deck doesn't have text labels -- it uses variations of common "VCR" icons: triangles (which I'll represent as less-than "<" and greater-than ">").

Rewind <<
Fast-forward >>
Stop [] (square)
Play >
Record O (circle)

Rewind to beginning is Hold [] and press <<

The set start marker button is |<< and end marker is >>|
Those things are the ones in the manual that present the problem. If there was a list of menus and buttons that was clearly labeled, i wouldn't have a problem, i think, since the results of most operations can be heard even while doing them, unlike on the H2N for example, where results of your menu operations can't be heard until you actually have executed the command. So the problem as i said before is to figure out the buttons that have associated menus, what they do and what the soft keys do in various situations and where they actually are located. How many soft keys are there and do they all change meanings depending on where in the process you are and are the soft keys always in the same place?.
/Krister
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IJoniHL
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Re: The R24 from a blind users perspective, some help please

Post by IJoniHL » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:58 pm

Hello. I have made for you an outline of the Zoom R24 according to what I have deduced from the user manual, but I can not further expand the information because I have no experience with this machine. I do not have the Zoom R24, but I would like to buy one. I am interesting to it because I am also blind. Surely someone can help us complete this outline

The nomenclature used is as following: S: Switch; L: Led; LK: Led/Key; K.: Key; X.: Soft keys; C.: Circular Control; F.: Fader; Quoted text (""): literal item in display to select with arrow keys; >: Next step; |: Alternatives.

First, I have written a list of the components of the user interface:
Power connection, K.Power,
USB Host connection, USB Device connection, SD socket,
XLR/Jacks Inputs, S.Internal mics, S.Metronome(Phones|All), S.Phantom, S.HI-Z, C.Balance, L.Peak´s, C.Gain´s | LK.Tempo, C.Dial,
Meters (Red (Saturation), oranje´s, Green) -- K.Project, K.Effect, K.Tool, K.USB, K.Rythm, Display,
LK.Status(Mute(off)|Play(Green)|Rec(Red)|Assigned(Orange), I think it turn in this order), LK.1-8TR, LK.9-16TR, LK.17-24TR, K.Track, K.Pan/EQ, -- Soft Keys (AKA X.)
f.Channels(1/9/17..8/16/24), F.Master, -- K.MarkPrev, K.MarkNext, K.Mark/Clear, LK.AutopunchIn/Out, LK.ABRepeat, K.RepeatStop,
Pads | K.Rew, K.FF, K.Stop, LK.Play, LK.Rec, K.Enter, K.Cursor´s, K.Exit

Now, I have written a diagram of the menu, as I understand it (Note: I have focused on the diagram rather than the functions it performs. Most things do not need explanation):
K.Project: For creation, adjustment and work with projects.
K.Project > "New" > ("Continue" (as last project) | "Reset" (default)) > Name field > Bit rate field > Bit length field > K.Enter into "Execute".
K.Project > "Protect".
K.Project > "Select" > select here: You can choose a project to record, play, and edit. You can also choose files for playback, copy, erase and other operations.
K.Project > ["File"] > "Info": I think there are two elements named "info": One inside "file" submenu and one outside.
K.Project > ["File"] > ("Copi" | "Rename") > Edit the new name if is needed. > T.Enter: I think there are two elements similar named: One inside "file" submenu and one outside.
K.Project > ["File"] > "Delete" > Confirm with K.Enter. I think there are two elements named "delete",: One inside "file" submenu and one outside.
K.Project > "File" > Seek as desired > "Divide": The original will be deleted, and two files will be generated, one file per part, and the "A" or "B" for first or second part respectively are appended to filename.
K.Project > "Seq Play": For manage playlists. I only know that there are two items here named "Edit" and "Delete".
K.Project > "Rec" > "Rec Mode" > ("Overwrite" (default) | "Always New"): for new takes. Note: When machine is playing, the track in red mode (status led linghting as red), if this set to "Always New", then the track perform muted, else if this is set to "Overwrite", then the sound of track is outputing to. In two cases the monitor is properly active.
K.Project > "Rec" > "Bit Length" > ("16" | "24").
#K.Project > "Rec" > "Rate" > ("44.1kHz" | "48.0kHz"): The effects only work at 44.1kHz. I'm afraid you can not change a bitrate project, this has to be chosen when creating.
K.Project > "Rec" > "BOUNCE TR" > ("Play" | "Mute"(default)): Play the destination track at bounce.
K.Effect: Adjusts the insertion and send / return effects.
K.Effect > (X.Insert | X.Rev | X.Cho) > X.On/Off.
K.Effect > X.Insert > "Algorithm": Select from "Clean/Crunch" | "Distortion" | "Aco/Bass SIM" | "Bass" | "Mic" | "Dual Mic" | "Stereo" | "8xComp EQ" | "Mastering").
K.Effect > X.Insert > "Input SRC" > X.On/Off on "Input 1" .. "Input 8" | "Track 1" .. "Track 24" | "Track 1-2" .. "Track 23-24" | "Master" | "Input 1-8" | "Track 1-8" | "Track 9-16", "Track 17-24"): The "CLEAN", "DISTORTION", "ACO / BASS SIM", "BASS", or "MIC" algorithms are for a single input. The "Dual Mic" algorithm is for two independent mono inputs. The "Stereo" and "Mastering" algorithms are for stereo inputs or tracks. The "Dual Mic", "Stereo" or "Mastering" algorithms are valid for the "Master" track. Note: When you apply an effect to the "Master" track, you can not apply same to the other tracks at the same time. The "8xComp EQ" algorithm is for the height inputs or for the one of the complete height track banks.
... > "PATCH"...
... > "REC SIG" > ("Wet" | "Dry"): Record or just listen.
K.Effect > (X.Rev|X.Cho) > "Algorithm" > select of "REVERB" | "CHORUS/DELAY".
K.Effect > Type > X.On/Off (or K.Enter) into module.
K.Rhythm: Plays, creates and sets rhythm patterns.
K.USB: To use audio interface, card reader and USB memory.
K.USB > "Reader".
K.USB > "Storage" > ("Init" | "Prj Load" | "Prj Save" | "File Load" | "File Save").
K.Tools: Metronome, tuner, system and SD card settings.
K.Tools > "Metronome" > X.On/Off ("Off" (default) | "Play & Rec" | "Rec Only" | "Play only").
K.Tools > "Metronome" > ("Level" | "Pan").
K.Tools > "Metronome" > "Sound" ("Bell" | "Click" | "Stic" | "Cowbell" | "Hi-Q" | "Track1" .. "24" (mono) | "Track 1-2" .. "23-24" (Stereo)).
K.Tools > "Metronome" > "Precount" ("Off" (default) | "1" .. "8" | "Special").
K.Tool > "System" > "Pad Sense" > ("Soft" | "Medium" | "Loud" | "Lite" | "Normal" (Default) | "Hard" | "Ex Hard"): With the values "Soft", "Medium", "Loud", the velocity with which the pads are pressed is ignored. With the values "Lite", "Normal", "Hard" and "Ex Hard", the volume depends on the force with which the pads are pressed.
K.Tool > "System" > "Pad Roll" > ("3/8" | "1/3" | "1/4" | "3/16" | "1/6" | "1/8" | "1/12" | "1/16" | "1/24" | "1/32").
K.Tool > "System" > "Date/Time".
K.Tools > "System" > "Sync rec" > ("Off" (Default) | "Master" | "Slave"): R24 cascadeable feature.
K.Tool > "System" > "Light" > ("On" (Default) | "Off" | "15S" | "30S").
K.Tool > "System" > "Contrast" > ("1" .. "8" (default is 5)).
K.Tool > "System" > "SD CARD" > ("Remain" | "Format" | "Load" | "Exchange").
K.Tool > "System" > "Version".
K.Tool > "System" > "Battery" > ("Alkaline" | "Ni-MH").
K.Tool > "System" > "Phantom" > "Voltaje" > (48" (default), "24"): For 3, 4, 7and 8 XLR inputs.
K.Tool > "System" > "Phantom" > ("3/4ch" | "7/8ch") > ("On" (Default) | "Off"): All phantom are turned off with S.Phantom switch.
K.Track: Track assigments and settings.
K.Track > "Take" > ("Pattern" | "USB" [LOOP]).
K.Track > "Take" > "File" > ("New Take", or select a file).
K.Trak > "BPM".
K.Track > "Loop" > ("Off" (Default) | "On").
K.Pan/EQ: mixer for track.
K.Pan/EQ > [Track] > "Pan".
K.Pan/EQ > [Track] > Use X.On/Off for enable or disable "EQ HI", "EQ MID", "EQ LO", "REV SEND", "CHO SEND" and "INVERT".
K.Pan/EQ > [Track] > EQ ("High" | "Mid" | "Low") > ("Gain" | "Freq"): "Gain" and "Freq" will be disabled if the respective equalizer is off. "Gain" will be disabled for equalizers with "type" as "cut".
K.Pan/EQ > [Track] > "EQ Hight" > "Type" > ("EQ Hight" | "Hight Cut").
K.Pan/EQ > [track] > "EQ Mid" > Q.
K.Pan/EQ > [Track] > "EQ Low" > "Type" > ("EQ Low" | "Low Cut").
K.Pan/EQ > [Track] > ("Rev Send" | "Cho Send").
K.Pan/EQ > [Track] > "Fader".
K.Pan/EQ > [Track] > "ST LINK": Link stereo for 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, ... 23-23, tracks.
K.Pan/EQ > [Track] > Invert: If "ST Link" for that track, this is displayed as "Invert L" or "Invert R"...
In the home screen: X.Bounce > [Source tracks as green] > [Destination tracks as red] > Play for previeo and set volumes and pans, and record as usually. If K.Project > "Rec" > "BOUNCE TR" == "Play", then the destination tracks will also be played.

Last, for reference:
Modules for the algoritms Clean/Crunch(Clean and crisp sounds suitable for guitars), Distortion (Saturation and others distorted sounds for guitars), Aco/Bass SIM (Instrument simulation algorithm suitable for guitars): COMP/LIMITER , EFX , PREAMP , 6BAND EQ , MOD/DELAY , REVERB , ZNR .
Modules for the algoritm Bass (Algorithm suitable for recording bass / guitars): COMP/LIMITER , EFX , PREAMP , 3BAND EQ , MOD/DELAY , ZNR .
Modules for the algoritm Mic (Algorithm suitable for voices and other recordings with microphone): OMP/LIMITER , EFX , MIC PRE , 3BAND EQ , MOD/DELAY , ZNR .
Pairs of the modules (L&R) for the algoritm DUAL MIC (Algorithm for two totally independent micro channels): COMP/LIMITER , MIC PREAMP , 3BAND EQ , DELAY , ZNR.
Modules for the algoritm Stereo (Algorithm for synthesizers, internal microphones and others): COMP/LIMITER , ISO/MIC MODEL , 3BAND EQ , MOD/DELAY , ZNR.
Modules for the algoritm 8x Comp EQ (Algorithm with 8 independent input / output channels): 1~8.
Modules for the algoritm Mastering (To process stereo end mixes): COMP/Lo-Fi , NORMALIZER , 3BAND EQ , DIMENSION/RESO , ZNR.
Modules of the send/return effects: CHORUS/DELAY , REVERB.
Types of the module COMP/LIMITER: Compressor, Rack Comp, Limiter.
Types of the module EFX: Auto Wah, Fix-Wah, Tremolo, Phaser, Ring modulator, Slow Attack, Booster.
Types of the module PREAMP: FD Combo, VX Combo, US Blues, BG Crunch, HW Stack, MS Crunch, MS Drive, PV Drive, DZ Drive, BG Drive, OverDrive, T Scream, Governor, Dist +, Dist 1, Squeak, FuzzSmile, GreatMuff, MetalWRLD, HotBox, Z Clean, Z Wild, Z MP1, Z Bottom, Z Dream, Z Scream, Z Neos, Lead, ExtremeDS, Acoustic Sim, Top Body Level, Bass Sim Body Level.
The only types of the module MIC PRE (or MIC PREAMP) is Mic Pre.
Types of the module ISO/MIC MODEL: Isolator, Mic Modeling, MD421, U87, C414.
Types of the module 6BAND EQ: 6BANDS EQ (+-12dB and unknown the Q factor (Bass (160Hz (I suposes it is a low-self type)), Low-Mid (400Hz), Middle (800Hz), Treble (3200Hz), Presence (6400Hz), Harmonics (12000Hz (I suposes it is a high-self type))), level).
Types of the module 3BAND EQ: 3BANDS EQ (band frequencies are not especified, but I think as case as same band names of 6BAN EQ, +-12dB (Bass, Middle, Treble), Level).
Types of the module MOD/DELAY: Chorus, Ensemble, Flanger, Pitch, Vibe, Step, Cry, Exciter, Air, Analog Delay, Reverse Delay, ARRM Pitch.
Types of the module DELAY: Delay, Echo, Doubling.
Types of the module CHORUS/DELAY: Chorus, Delay, Rev Send.
Types of the module REVERB: Hall, Room, Spring, Arena, TiledRoom.
The ZNR module have only a type: ZNR.
Types of the module 1~8: Low cut 80..240Hz, Rack Comp, Limiter.
Types of the module COMP/Lo-Fi: 3Band Comp, Lo-Fi.
The NORMALIZER module have an effect type only: Normalizer.
Types of the module DIMENSION/RESO: Dimension, Resonance.

I hope this will help. It is what I can contribute for now. When I buy it, I can correct any errors, and specify more things and my experience.

Sorry for my bad english. I am Spanish.

Thanks.
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