external battery for R16/R24

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hoodoo voodoo
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external battery for R16/R24

Post by hoodoo voodoo » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:50 am

I'm wondering if one of the (now many) external battery packs available for recharging smart phones and tablets would also be suitable for extending the operating time of an R16/24, if used away from mains power...in preference to using 6 x AA's internally ?

Most of them recharge from the USB port of a computer, and would only require the correct diameter barrel DC connector to be fitted in place of the phone connector.

Here's an example of one, and there are numerous varieties available now: http://www.walmart.com/ip/PNY-T7800mAh- ... k/39856413

Would there be any risk of it frying the internals of the Rxx, given that it's a high output recharger ? The R16 requires 1A from an external mains transformer, and that's typically what these packs supply too...presumably they're all typically 5 volts DC ?
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by Jim_Fogle » Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:30 pm

6 AA batteries put out 9 volts dc and usb phone chargers supply 5 volts dc. A better option might be to use external battery holders that can hold six C or D batteries. They have the same voltage level and can retain more current than AA batteries.
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by BobF » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:03 am

They can be USB powered, so why not use a USB cable just like powering from a PC?
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by AlexeiY » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:11 am

When I use USB power from my computer, the R24 can only be used as a card reader or a DAW controller, not a standalone recorder. Am I missing something?
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by hoodoo voodoo » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:51 am

Jim_Fogle wrote:6 AA batteries put out 9 volts dc and usb phone chargers supply 5 volts dc. A better option might be to use external battery holders that can hold six C or D batteries. They have the same voltage level and can retain more current than AA batteries.
The way I'm considering using the external battery, it would connect into the same DC In socket that the AD14 power adapter plugs into.....and the specs on the AD14 unit says it supplies 5 volts DC at 1A, so I'm hoping the external battery would match those output specs as well. Hence, no need for 9 volts, as it wouldn't be connected to the AA battery bay.
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by hoodoo voodoo » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:54 am

AlexeiY wrote:When I use USB power from my computer, the R24 can only be used as a card reader or a DAW controller, not a standalone recorder. Am I missing something?
Yes that's what mine does also....and as for the other USB connector alongside it (labelled "Host") I'm pretty sure that's only for connecting a USB thumb drive to for data transfer ?
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by AlexeiY » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:27 am

AlexeiY wrote:
When I use USB power from my computer, the R24 can only be used as a card reader or a DAW controller, not a standalone recorder. Am I missing something?
hoodoo voodoo wrote:
Yes that's what mine does also....and as for the other USB connector alongside it (labelled "Host") I'm pretty sure that's only for connecting a USB thumb drive to for data transfer ?
You're quite right, that's what it's for. Your external battery idea is intriguing 8) ....please let us know how it goes.
cheers,
Alex
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by Wulfraed » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:22 pm

hoodoo voodoo wrote:
AlexeiY wrote:When I use USB power from my computer, the R24 can only be used as a card reader or a DAW controller, not a standalone recorder. Am I missing something?
Yes that's what mine does also....and as for the other USB connector alongside it (labelled "Host") I'm pretty sure that's only for connecting a USB thumb drive to for data transfer ?
It's also used for the daisy chain of using two R24s with the master transport controls being relayed to the slave device.
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by Jim_Fogle » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:42 pm

Perhaps the R16 can be USB powered while using the record function. Hopefully hoodoo voodoo will let us know.

The USB 2.0 design standard limits the current drain for each receptacle to a maximum of 0.5 amps. This test could pop the power runs right off the circuit board. On the other hand Zoom hardware engineers may have dead headed the USB power connections to prevent accidental damage to the circuit board.

We know the 5 Vdc connection is designed to handle 1.0 amps.
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by hoodoo voodoo » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:20 am

Zoom USA are of some help..but they clearly haven't made any first hand experiments along these lines (as it's a non-standard, non-approved kludge on my part). Their response to the same query I posted here is:
"There is a chance that you may fry your unit if it puts out too much power. But we would suggest the AD14 power adapter for the best result. But please let us know if this works"
--Zachary Wiegand, Customer Support

So I'm on my own on this one..... :roll:
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by Jim_Fogle » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:56 pm

Please keep us advised.
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by Wulfraed » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:17 am

hoodoo voodoo wrote:Zoom USA are of some help..but they clearly haven't made any first hand experiments along these lines (as it's a non-standard, non-approved kludge on my part). Their response to the same query I posted here is:
"There is a chance that you may fry your unit if it puts out too much power. But we would suggest the AD14 power adapter for the best result. But please let us know if this works"
--Zachary Wiegand, Customer Support

So I'm on my own on this one..... :roll:
The only thing I'd really be concerned with is the voltage level. Batteries don't "push" their capacity into a load -- the load device "draws" (or "sucks") what it is capable of passing/using.

Granted, in the case of an internal short, a battery can dump a LOT of current*, whereas a limited current wall-wart may fry instead. But in this case you already have a problem in the device.



* Consider radio controlled race cars. The classical battery pack was around 7.2-8.4 volts, rated 1400mAh -- or 1.4A distributed over one hour of usage; race cars typically were geared to drain that pack in 4-5 minutes (the length of one race). That means the cars were drawing 17A of current -- over 120W!
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by Bobw70 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:50 pm

"There is a chance that you may fry your unit if it puts out too much power. But we would suggest the AD14 power adapter for the best result. But please let us know if this works"
--Zachary Wiegand, Customer Support
All you need is to add a current limiter if the source is 5 VDC, other wise you'll also need a 5 V regulator circuit as well. the 7800 series regulators can provide a regulated VDC output, in your case you'll need a the 7805 regulator or use an NPN BJT to regulate the voltage source using a 4.3 V zener. There are many circuits examples available on the web for regulating the output voltage and limit the output current as well. Although some circuits are more efficient that others. In the 7805 circuit, it will not be as efficient as the BJT or FET regulating circuit.
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by BobF » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:31 am

Guys - current ratings on power supplies tell you the MAX they are able to provide, not how much they are pushing. The unit being powered only draws from the power supply what it needs.
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by hoodoo voodoo » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:41 am

Thanks Bob, that's good to know....it gives more encouragement to try without fry...!
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by BobF » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:56 am

Just make sure the voltage is correct and the current rating is at least what the stock unit is rated for.

I tried a straight up USB charger in the USB port of my R24 earlier. I was hoping the lack of data signals would let it run as a recorder. My hopes were dashed.
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Re: external battery for R16/R24

Post by Bobw70 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:17 pm

BobF, I agree but my portable source is a motorcycle battery and it needs current limiting in the event someone decides to spill beer on the board. Without current limiting, all is fine, but this has happened to my pedal board, so now I use current limiting.

A typical wall wart would not need current limiting.
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