Help with Cables

Discuss the Zoom HD and R series. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
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fjs714
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Help with Cables

Post by fjs714 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:18 am

Hi Fellas,
I wanted to buy a splitter cable. One end would go into the output of my audio interface----the splitter end would go into my R24. I wanted all the plugs to be 1/4 balanced TRS. I can only find cables that are balanced on one end ----but mono on the splitter end. By doing this I hoped to get a good stereo sound.
OR should I just use a Balanced 1/4 single cable and go from the audio interface into one track of the R24. with the same audio result?
Thanks Frank
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mikethebass
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Re: Help with Cables

Post by mikethebass » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:31 am

Remember that the R16 / 24 is an audio interface. Why not just hook it up to your computer with a USB lead and use either it's headphones and / or main outs?

Running into channel inputs from your interface could give problems with levels as you would be running through your pre amps and possibly eq / fx.
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fjs714
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Re: Help with Cables

Post by fjs714 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:38 am

Hi Mike,
I realized that my R24 is an audio interface---but I'm using an Apogee Duet, and I thought that might give me a better quality sound. I always wondered if going from a better audio interface into a lesser one ----which audio is recorded; the better or the lesser?
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fjs714
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Re: Help with Cables

Post by fjs714 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:15 am

Hi
Just an afterthought. If I connect my R24 to my macbook pro using usb, can I record some of my vst (Omni 2) into my R 24?
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Wulfraed
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Re: Help with Cables

Post by Wulfraed » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:44 pm

fjs714 wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:15 am
Hi
Just an afterthought. If I connect my R24 to my macbook pro using usb, can I record some of my vst (Omni 2) into my R 24?
Not in audio interface mode... In A/I mode, the R24 becomes the "sound card" for the system, and recording functions tend to be disabled.

If the "vst" means a software sound library, you would just have the computer output to a WAV file, and import the WAV file into a project on the R24.


As for "balanced TRS" -- Balanced TRS is a MONO cable carrying S+, S-, and G (equivalent to the three pins on a mono XLR connector -- stereo XLR has 5 pins). It sounds like the splitter cables mentioned above are UNBALANCED TRS (STEREO) to Dual unbalanced MONO. Note that feeding a STEREO TRS into the R24 will sound horrendous, as the balanced mono will subtract the Right from the Left (so anything in the center cancels out and only the extreme left and right only sounds come through).
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fjs714
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Re: Help with Cables

Post by fjs714 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:21 am

Wulfraed,
Thank you very much for the education. I always wondered why I never saw a single balanced plug on one end and balanced plugs at the end of the Y adapter.
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fjs714
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Re: Help with Cables

Post by fjs714 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:55 am

Fellas,
Dont mean to beat a dead horse----just want to understand theory.
The Apagee Duet has 4 analog outputs:
Two balanced 1/4 mono outputs for speakers and outboard gear.
One 1/4 stereo headphones output.
Which would be better to use for better sound quality, recording into the R24
Thanks Frank
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Wulfraed
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Re: Help with Cables

Post by Wulfraed » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:49 am

The Apogee web site uses confusing terminology... Everyone I know of would consider a stereo headphone jack to be ONE OUTPUT, but they are considering that single jack to be two outputs.

Regardless, use of a headphone jack is the last resort for recording... Headphone jacks 1) have volume controls which means you end up fiddling with levels on the output device and the input device; 2) are designed to feed low-power speakers, so the impedance range is much different from proper line-out jacks.

Normally, what I would recommend is to use a pair of balanced TRS to XLR adapters

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessor ... adType^PLA

along with two stereo linked tracks on the R-series (since I'm guessing the Apogee is producing a stereo mix on output already, linking the R-series tracks means you don't fiddle with independent levels and panning). And yes -- if you want stereo, you will need to use two tracks of the recorder.

I should also point out that the Apogee is using professional +4dBu specifications, while the R-series is designed for consumer -10dBV line-ins. If you aren't careful, you can overload the R16 pre-amps.
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Baron Wulfraed
IISS Elusive Unicorn (detached)

Superscope PSD-300; BOSS BR-600, Zoom HD16cd, Zoom R16, BOSS BR-800, Zoom H2n
Now to (re)learn to play an instrument

Lanikai S-C, SMC-E; GoldTone Banjo-Uke; Flatiron 1C, A5; Big Muddy M1-W; Ovation MM68AX, CSE-44; Orpheus Valley Fiesta FS; Taylor NS-72ce, T5-S1; Musima (4st, 20 fret, tenor-tuned) banjo; bongos, dumbeks, bodhrans, hand drum, tambourine; recorder: soprano, alto, tenor; Cedar Flute (5 sizes); Pennywhistle (3 keys); Casio keyboards

Wulfraed
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Re: Help with Cables

Post by Wulfraed » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:57 am

fjs714 wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:38 am
Hi Mike,
I realized that my R24 is an audio interface---but I'm using an Apogee Duet, and I thought that might give me a better quality sound. I always wondered if going from a better audio interface into a lesser one ----which audio is recorded; the better or the lesser?
I should have commented on this earlier...

The path you are proposing consists of

Source (analog) -> Apogee A/D converter (digital) ... Apogee D/A converter (analog) -> R24 A/D converter (digital)

The quality of the last A/D converter will rule, along with that of the output D/A converter. The only thing you really gain is any internal processing (equalizer, effects) applied to the digital data at the "...". (Though in answer to your full question -- the "lesser" converter stages will rule always, since feeding lower quality to a higher quality unit can not create additional quality, it just reproduces the flaws in the source more perfectly)

Now, if the path were

Source (analog) -> Apogee A/D converter (digital) ... save as WAV file on computer (digital) -> copy WAV file via USB to R24 project and assign to track

you bypass two conversion stages and retain the quality aspects of the Apogee A/D converter (you still have to put up with the R24 output D/A converter though, if playing back through it -- but mixing/effects takes place in the digital realm with no converters in play, copying the master WAV via USB avoids converter loss.
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Baron Wulfraed
IISS Elusive Unicorn (detached)

Superscope PSD-300; BOSS BR-600, Zoom HD16cd, Zoom R16, BOSS BR-800, Zoom H2n
Now to (re)learn to play an instrument

Lanikai S-C, SMC-E; GoldTone Banjo-Uke; Flatiron 1C, A5; Big Muddy M1-W; Ovation MM68AX, CSE-44; Orpheus Valley Fiesta FS; Taylor NS-72ce, T5-S1; Musima (4st, 20 fret, tenor-tuned) banjo; bongos, dumbeks, bodhrans, hand drum, tambourine; recorder: soprano, alto, tenor; Cedar Flute (5 sizes); Pennywhistle (3 keys); Casio keyboards

fjs714
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Re: Help with Cables

Post by fjs714 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:24 am

Again thanks very much for taking the time to explain. It is very much appreciated.
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