Zoom R24 zooming....You cannot be serious!

Discuss the Zoom HD and R series. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
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xelaris
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Zoom R24 zooming....You cannot be serious!

Post by xelaris » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:42 pm

After nearly a year of using my R24 I decided to delve in more depth about the full potential offered by this machine...(I've never read the manual apart from a few bits from the effects section).
It does a great job as a recorder and it is intuitive and well designed but what about Sampling and Rhythm? I'd leave the Effect section aside for now - but I'm not that keen on complex Algorithms meant to provide a solution for average situations (we think for you) which rarely work in real life anyhow - so, I missed a more Modular approach here...but let's go back to Sampling and Rhythm.

I was just about reading about Trimming Samples and the possibility of zooming in by x32...great stuff I thought initially but then I realized the zooming only apply to Amplitude and not Timing?! Is that a joke?! There must be a mistake I thought and try to get to the bottom of this issue.
Can you confirm? The zooming of waveforms in the R24 only apply to Amplitude and not Timing? (and if one of the 2 had to go it would be the Amplitude in my opinion).
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Re: Zoom R24 zooming....You cannot be serious!

Post by xelaris » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:25 am

any kind soul out there can confirm the topic of this "discussion" (at this stage it's a monologue)...

Anyway, I've googled a bit and bound to conclude this is what is being offered - no one seems to complain about it - but the waveform can't be zoomed along the timeline (only vertically - Amplitude).
Maybe many users (like myself) have bought the R24 for it's recording features - for the money, one can't pretend to have the specs of a fully fledged sampler - and yes, the recorder features alone are worth the price paid - but surely having a waveform which can be only zoomed vertically (Amplitude) it's not the sign of a very well thought sampler.
It's like the manufacturer had a fixed objective to put a representation of a waveform + "zoom" at all costs - and what you do with a zoom which shows us a black rectangular shape after x4 or x6 factor? (x32?! you must be joking).
The efforts of the Zoom's designers/programmers comes through - if they invested their energies let's say 80% on the recorder and 10% on the Sampler and 10% on the Drums this is what we get...

Fortunately, I didn't sell my old and trusty SP808! (let's put the fun into sampling).
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Re: Zoom R24 zooming....You cannot be serious!

Post by Jim_Fogle » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:55 pm

I do not have a R8, R16 or R24 so I'm commenting based on prior readings of the user manuals.

I can not imagine Zoom thinking anyone would purchase a R8, R16 or R24 to replace a sampler. From what I can tell sampling capability is available mainly to provide the capability to swap drum samples in and out of the machine. Each pad has four velocity zones so each pad can have four sample assignments. Zoom provides 500GB (?) of drum samples so Zoom likely expected users to modify sample volume levels to even out the overall drum track volume level so the samples might better match their use in a user created song.

Hardware based samplers are disappearing. Roland doesn't sell the SP 808 anymore. Most people want to use a laptop or tablet running Ableton Live to play samples. Roland continues to sell the SP-404 SX for $499 and the SPDSX for $800 but likely will not be replaced once they sell out. Besides, comparing dedicated hardware samplers to a Zoom recorder isn't a fair comparison. You can create the multitracks for a song project then set loop pointers but that is not comparable to a looper or loop pedal.
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Re: Zoom R24 zooming....You cannot be serious!

Post by Wulfraed » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:56 am

Jim_Fogle wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:55 pm
I can not imagine Zoom thinking anyone would purchase a R8, R16 or R24 to replace a sampler. From what I can tell sampling capability is available mainly to provide the capability to swap drum samples in and out of the machine. Each pad has four velocity zones so each pad can have four sample assignments. Zoom provides 500GB (?) of drum samples so Zoom likely expected users to modify sample volume levels to even out the overall drum track volume level so the samples might better match their use in a user created song.
The R16 isn't even in contention -- no rhythm/sampler function.

And based upon the manual, while the pads have four discrete levels (when using the rhythm section "drum kit"), the sampler function can only have one sample per pad.
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Re: Zoom R24 zooming....You cannot be serious!

Post by Jim_Fogle » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:37 pm

I appreciate Wulfraed correcting my mistakes. It seems I was a little too broad with my comments. I apologize to everyone for giving the R-16 functionality it really does not have.

One sample per pad doesn't make much sense on a unit unless the pads are not velocity sensitive. Evidently that was another bad assumption on my part and a break from how Zoom has used pads with past products.
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Re: Zoom R24 zooming....You cannot be serious!

Post by xelaris » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:13 am

Any of you has used the zooming capabilities of the R24? Have you not noticed how useless is it? It's handy to be able to view the waveform but I never use the Zooming factor not even x2 (let alone x32).

I agree, nowadays dedicated samplers aren't as relevant as decades ago and most of those functions are done via DAWs or Software Programs for laptops, pc.
Yet, having bought the R24 for it's portability it would be handy to have recorder sampler and drums in a single box - one can bring a laptop and having all that power and flexibility with it but still you need of a decent Audio Interface with it...
In my opinion if the Zoom team had put a bit more efforts on the sampling capabilities of the R24 we would have a real killer...when I saw those pads I imagined a similar approach offered by the SP808 was possible but it doesn't come even close not because of lack of power or memory but because of bad programming - lack of love in what was being put into it?
btw not even the SP808 can be considered a dedicated sampler (more a Audio/Midirecorder/sampler/loop/mixing/synth/drums machine) and the sampling functions with it are pretty basic when compared to some Akai of that period...but everything click into place, when you use it you know the developers were keen musicians they loved what they were doing. In the case of the R24 it feels like the developers where being forced to add a sampler and drum and effects to a perfectly designed recorder - that's a pity, because the capabilities (in my opinion) where all there...
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Re: Zoom R24 zooming....You cannot be serious!

Post by Wulfraed » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:28 am

Jim_Fogle wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:37 pm
One sample per pad doesn't make much sense on a unit unless the pads are not velocity sensitive. Evidently that was another bad assumption on my part and a break from how Zoom has used pads with past products.
Based upon the manual (all I can go by, since my R16 doesn't do it) the pads are "velocity" sensitive -- but only with the pre-set drum kits (possibly Zoom has four samples per pad, but since one can't edit them it is irrelevant), not with the sampler/sequencer functions. (Page 67) indicates three fixed-volume (regardless of how hard the pad is struck) settings, and four sensitivity levels (from a light hit producing full volume, to one where you need a hammer :lol: to get a decent volume). The specs state 10 drum kits, and page 67 implies each kit has a "drum" and "percussion" bank.

In the sampler side, the pads appear only to trigger the playback of "loop" samples OR of rhythm "patterns" (depending upon which of the two have been assigned to the pad).

You can have the pads either be drum-kit, or sampler, but not a mix. I don't think the sampler side was meant to substitute for a drum kit with sub-beat resolution, so having trim functions at near full measure length sort of makes sense.
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