Dumb Question: R24 Guitar/Bass Direct Injection Basics, please?

Discuss the Zoom HD and R series. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
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DCW
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Dumb Question: R24 Guitar/Bass Direct Injection Basics, please?

Post by DCW » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:06 pm

Consider me an ignorant Luddite. I can only get a faint signal when I do this, and I have to turn the gain way up. Right now, my band and I are co-writing an instrumental. I need to record a sketch with my guitar and bass. Please don't judge, and get me to the "game", so to speak? Thank you, in advance.
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Wulfraed
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Re: Dumb Question: R24 Guitar/Bass Direct Injection Basics, please?

Post by Wulfraed » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:52 pm

Details of the configuration, please... Model/brand of any boxes between the instrument and recorder. Which input of the R2 are you using?

What happens if you don't use any intermediate boxes? Plug the instrument directly into the R24 (and if the instrument is passive, activate the Hi-impedance switch for the inpujt; active instruments [those with battery powered pick-up/pre-amp] should be providing line-level outputs and use a low input-gain).

From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DI_unit (bold/italics my addition)
A DI unit (direct input) is an electronic device typically used in recording studios and in sound reinforcement systems to connect a high-output impedance, line level, unbalanced output signal to a low-impedance, microphone level, balanced input, usually via an XLR connector and XLR cable.
Microphone level is nominally FULL GAIN on an R24 pre-amp, while line level is MINIMUM Gain.

So if you are using such a box, you are converting what would have been closer to line-level (needing little gain) to a microphone-level (needing a lot of gain). Therefore -- everything is behaving as expected.
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Superscope PSD-300; BOSS BR-600, Zoom HD16cd, Zoom R16, BOSS BR-800, Zoom H2n
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Lanikai S-C, SMC-E; GoldTone Banjo-Uke; Flatiron 1C, A5; Big Muddy M1-W; Ovation MM68AX, CSE-44; Orpheus Valley Fiesta FS; Taylor NS-72ce, T5-S1; Musima (4st, 20 fret, tenor-tuned) banjo; bongos, dumbeks, bodhrans, hand drum, tambourine; recorder: soprano, alto, tenor; Cedar Flute (5 sizes); Pennywhistle (3 keys); Casio keyboards

DCW
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Re: Dumb Question: R24 Guitar/Bass Direct Injection Basics, please?

Post by DCW » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:55 pm

Nothing in-between. Just an instrument plugged in by 1/4 inch cord into the R24. I also don't know how to get to the effects, the amp models, and such to work. Thank you.
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Wulfraed
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Re: Dumb Question: R24 Guitar/Bass Direct Injection Basics, please?

Post by Wulfraed » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:34 am

DCW wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:55 pm
Nothing in-between. Just an instrument plugged in by 1/4 inch cord into the R24. I also don't know how to get to the effects, the amp models, and such to work. Thank you.
Well... for a passive instrument direct wired to the R24, you'll need to use INPUT 1 and turn on the high-impedance switch. (My ancient HD16 has switches on both Input 1 and 2 -- but most of my instruments are active, and don't need the switch [only an ukulele is passive]).

If you haven't done that, it should improve the signal transfer -- all the power in a passive signal comes from mechanical activity (steel string moving in a magnetic field inducing changes on a coil; or piezoelectric crystal being squeezed by vibrations). Normal inputs result in that signal just passing through -- high impedance restricts the signal creating a slightly higher voltage for detection.

Have you studied the user manual? Starting with pages 7-8 for setting levels...

As for the effects -- The entire section starting at page 77; though editing may be able to wait a bit... page 80 and 81. Then page 126-130 for the list of presets (page 131 is the send/return effect which is different from insert effects). Lastly, when you get interested in modifying a preset, pages 115-125.
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Baron Wulfraed
IISS Elusive Unicorn (detached)

Superscope PSD-300; BOSS BR-600, Zoom HD16cd, Zoom R16, BOSS BR-800, Zoom H2n
Now to (re)learn to play an instrument

Lanikai S-C, SMC-E; GoldTone Banjo-Uke; Flatiron 1C, A5; Big Muddy M1-W; Ovation MM68AX, CSE-44; Orpheus Valley Fiesta FS; Taylor NS-72ce, T5-S1; Musima (4st, 20 fret, tenor-tuned) banjo; bongos, dumbeks, bodhrans, hand drum, tambourine; recorder: soprano, alto, tenor; Cedar Flute (5 sizes); Pennywhistle (3 keys); Casio keyboards

mikethebass
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Re: Dumb Question: R24 Guitar/Bass Direct Injection Basics, please?

Post by mikethebass » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:09 pm

What bass are you using?
Is it active or passive?
Where do you have your volume and tone controls set on the bass?

For a passive instrument I would not be surprised to see the channel gain set to about about 3 o clock and the volume on the bass at maximum and not have the clipping light show.
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Ignatius
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Re: Dumb Question: R24 Guitar/Bass Direct Injection Basics, please?

Post by Ignatius » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:31 pm

I recommend you set aside your exploration of the effects and amp models just for now. Don't give up on them, just set them aside.

The one, quick way to address your problem is to plug your instruments into anything that can boost your signal, then connect that thing - whether a guitar amp, or a small mixer - directly into the machine. You will get quick results if you do this.

You can learn all the other stuff, but I sense you and I would have a lot in common when it comes to reading manuals, especially the one for the R24, which I find pretty tough. (And I have been doing this for about 15 years, going from four-tracks to digital recording in the process.)

There will be a world of trial and error, and you cannot really avoid the amount of time, toil and frustration you must invest before it all starts to work for you. But hang in there. You can do it.
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