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R16 No Record Function

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 3:21 pm
by christof1971
HI All,

I recently acquired an R16 as I needed more inputs into my mixing Desk and it was cheap enough solution, however it does have a problem, the audio interface side works fine does what I need it too, but there is no record function.

When you switch on it doesn't mention anything about creating a project as in the manual, there is no SD card menu, you can set it as a card reader but when you put an SD card in although you get a drive on the computer the computer responds with no card.

Just curious as to if this can be fixed / resolved or it is what it is :)

Thanks

Chris

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 6:05 pm
by mikethebass
Not an issue I've seen here before, but here are a couple of things to try in standalone mode.

Take a freshly formatted SD card, any size up to 32Gb any class. Put it in the R16.

Turn the R16 on using mains power. What message comes up?

Project -> New. This should create the Project zero folder, it's audio folder and a couple of other files.

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:05 am
by christof1971
Hi Mike,

just tried it with mains power exactly the same thing only wants to be used as an audio interface, no project no sd card menu

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:30 am
by hoodoo voodoo
Is there firmware on board the R16....eg 1.20 or 1.21 ? Have you formatted the SD card inside the R16 ? I'm assuming you're not pressing the usb button on startup...and it's standalone (ie no usb cable connected) ?

Usually on powering up with mains or battery power, the first thing that shows on the display is the firmware version currently installed. If not, that needs installation immediately https://www.zoom.co.jp/R16_R24-driver
https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/fi ... 121_en.pdf

You'll find it under the 'Software' banner at the bottom of this page: https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/multi-t ... #downloads

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:05 pm
by christof1971
Hi Hoodoo,

On bootup no usb attached just power I get the firmware version 1.21 then it drops straight to Audio Interface all I can do is right or left arrow between that and Card Reader, no other buttons seem to work on the zoom except the tools or the enter and exit and the jog wheel.

A short Video link below of the boot up I get

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1efAbg ... _ttO6v0B_q

Thanks

Chris

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:22 pm
by hoodoo voodoo
Even with no SD card inside, I get the firmware version, then the 'No Card' warning, then it goes to the Continue/Reset and finally a Project screen with a --- for the project...so yours clearly isn't getting past card reader/interface choice mode (which I'd expect if it was running on USB power from a computer attached)
When you disconnected it from your computer, did you go through the correct 'disconnect'' procedure....as it seems to be stuck in that mode and not progressing to standalone mode ? Very odd indeed...

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:18 pm
by christof1971
If you mean use the USB button and disconnect that way, yes have tried that. I've also looked on the PC in the task bar under usb but it doesn't show there.

If I set to card reader, I get a drive in explorer but it does not acknowledge the SD card keeps telling me to mount a drive :)

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:21 am
by hoodoo voodoo
An additional question....when you put an SD card inside the R16, with the recorder unconnected to PC via USB cable, did you format the card in the R16 using the R16's format procedure ?

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:26 am
by Wulfraed
Since, according to the manual, an unformatted SD card automatically triggers the "Format" menu, at this point I would suspect any of:

Bad SD card
Bad SD card socket

Granted, I don't think I've ever seen a truly "unformatted" SD card -- but cards that don't have the default Zoom files would be the next thing to one.

To eliminate the the first option requires using the card in a standalone computer SD memory reader slot (and if it works there, I suggest for completeness running https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/index.html (heh -- URL says "4" but they just released a version "5") on the card (haven't seen the v5 menu yet, in v4 "overwrite, size adjust" would be recommended). Also, the R16 does not recognize SDXC cards -- you need regular SD (<4GB) or SDHC (<64GB).

If the card is good, or you have other cards to try, and none are recognized, you can probably assume a bad SD card socket (bad connections, broken solder joints). Having it come up in card reader mode doesn't mean much as that is just software protocol on the USB cable acting as a pass-through to let the computer command the SD slot.

If this was a new R16, it should be handled under warranty. If obtained used, you'll have to take it up with the seller.


Addendum: looks like v5 has removed the pop-up offering quick/erase/overwrite and size-adjust, and now just shows quick/overwrite modes. (Erase never worked for me)

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:11 pm
by christof1971
HooDoo, I dont get any ability at all to format an SD Card, I have tried many in the slot.

Wulfraed, I'm inclined the think the same as you but I would have though if the SD slot was buggered then it would still give me the menu options to do everything else on it, but as you can see from the video I only get the option of card reader or Audio interface nothing else no matter what I do.

I did purchase it knowing there was a fault and only audio interface was working but thats all I really needed, I was making sure that the issue wasn't due to the zoom needing some sort of factory reboot or something like that. Thanks for your input on this.

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:23 pm
by Jim_Fogle
Nice link Baron. That's a fascinating site.

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:20 am
by sciurius
Makes me wonder: What would "typical OS utilities" do different than their "SD Memory Card Formatter"...

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:07 am
by Wulfraed
Flash memory allocation units (which are the units that get erased for reuse) are often larger than the I/O "block/sector" size. If the I/O sizes aren't set to an even multiple, it could mean that writing a block requires spanning two allocation units. Though I admit, that should be a rare situation as I'd expect blocks to be a power of two, and also allocation units.

Apparently the concern is that OS formatting doesn't account for allocation units and just treats the space as a linear list of blocks which may not be optimal for writing. http://3gfp.com/wp/2014/07/formatting-s ... -lifetime/

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:47 pm
by christof1971
Is it worth getting it looked at and possibly fixed ?

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:16 am
by Wulfraed
christof1971 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:47 pm
Is it worth getting it looked at and possibly fixed ?
The unit was "used" when you bought it, since you state it already had "a fault" (is this the fault, or was there something else?); that means no warranty coverage.

I suspect Zoom service, when added to what you paid, would cost nearly what a new (warranty) R16 would cost. For the most part, these devices aren't really repaired -- Zoom likely pops out the main circuit card, and plugs in a card from "parts" (which may have come out of a prior unit that had some other faults, while your card goes back for "remanufacturing"). The only "local" repair one may find is at the level of soldering in a new SD card cage or power connectors. I suspect not even the switches are replaceable.

I don't know about your area, but the few times I've had something in for repairs, there is an initial charge around $90-125 just to open and diagnose the device -- any parts will be additional, along with labor rate to change out the parts. And, unlike mainstream consumer gear (TV, surround sound amp), I don't think service manuals are available for Zoom products.

Diagnosing this would be time consuming -- since you claim to not even see the "no card" display, the device is not only not seeing the SD card, but acting like there is no SD card function... And without that, one can't even attempt to reflash the firmware.

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 5:46 pm
by christof1971
Thanks Baron, I only paid $100 AUD for it which for an 8 Channel USB audio interface is cheap as far as I'm concerned and all I wanted it for was the audio interface.

I did buy it knowing the recording function wasn't working, but hey you never know might have been a cheap fix, they sell her brand new $615 approx so if I need the ability to record I'd probably buy a new one for peace of mind.

Thanks again for all your input you've all been very helpful

Re: R16 No Record Function

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 6:58 pm
by Wulfraed
<OUCH>

The exchange rate must be horrendous <G>

New R16s go for US$ 400... The R8 goes for $300 (where the nearest BOSS equivalent, the BR-800, is $450! [and yes, I do own the BR-800 -- I'd hoped it would replace the BR-600 which is limited to 1GB CF cards; but the BR-800 lacks the on-board rhythm pattern/arrangement editing, AND the pitch-map pitch-correction [where many devices have "nearest scale pitch" correction, the BR-600 allowed one to define the actual scale note at a time point, and would adjust the input to that note]; I'd bought the HD-16, and later R-16, for potential video usage [multiple performers, surround ambiance)