R8 positioning of wav samples?

Discuss the Zoom HD and R series. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
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pcal
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R8 positioning of wav samples?

Post by pcal » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:14 am

Hi guys,

I'm a brand new to Zoom owner of an R8 that I plan to use for recording a podcast series. I may tinker with music recording later, but that will be very much a secondary function.

I love the portability of the deck, and the fact it will fit in my tiny recording booth and doesn't add a background hum like my old PC recording solution did.

What I can't figure out is how to place my audio files within the project ready to downmix to a master track. Everything wants to start at the 0 seconds mark (I have it set to seconds rather than bars / beats etc.)

I have an intro and an exit clip, that clearly need to be at the start and finish of the mix, a music background that will fade in and out as suits the content of each podcast, my recorded commentary which would be on a single track from start to finish, and then possibly other audio grabs (like questions from subscribers) that sometimes will need to slot in somewhere in between.

How do I adjust the starting point of each piece of audio in my mix? I can easily do it in the DAW, but the PC with Cubase doesn't fit in my booth (and isn't welcome anyway), and being able to take the R8 on the road with me as a one box solution is a distinct advantage.

I have attempted to set each file as a 1shot loop and queue them with a "pad" in the sequencer - but that requires me to use bars/beats rather than seconds, is particularly cumbersome, and has not yet resulted in a "successful" mix.

What am I missing?

Thanks in anticipation.

Pcal
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Wulfraed
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Re: R8 positioning of wav samples?

Post by Wulfraed » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:48 pm

pcal wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:14 am
I have attempted to set each file as a 1shot loop and queue them with a "pad" in the sequencer - but that requires me to use bars/beats rather than seconds, is particularly cumbersome, and has not yet resulted in a "successful" mix.

What am I missing?

Mainly that the entire R-series lack inter- and intra- track editing (which had been available on the HDx, and the ancient BOSS BR-600; the original BR-800 firmware lacked them, but they were added in a firmware patch a few months after release). Inter-/intra- track editing allowed one to cut&paste from anywhere in a track to anywhere in the same (intra) or another (inter) track.

The track sequencer of the R8 (and R24, not available on R16) may be tied to measures/beats -- but also, per the manual, can be set to 16th note steps... Your best route is probably to set the tempo of the project to a value where 16th notes are at the resolution you can live with. At 250bpm (maximum) with 4/4 time signature you have 1000 16th notes per minute -- 16.666 per second; or ~60mSec per step.
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pcal
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Re: R8 positioning of wav samples?

Post by pcal » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:19 pm

Wulfraed wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:48 pm
Mainly that the entire R-series lack inter- and intra- track editing
OK... I guess I missed that while doing my research. It seems like such a fundamental feature, I assumed a device capable of so much would of course be able to do that.

Thank you for saving me from searching for something that isn't there. And thank you also for the information that the sequencer approach just might work yet. Will focus my efforts there for now to get a handle on using it properly.

As a last resort, I could always externally edit my smaller wav files to add X seconds of silence to the start of the file so they all line up in the mix - but that would be painful for anything that didn't have a fixed position in every final mix.

Thanks again,

Pcal
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sciurius
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Re: R8 positioning of wav samples?

Post by sciurius » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:33 am

If you resort to external editing, tools like Audacity (simple) and Ardour (powerful) are a great help when it comes to cutting, pasting and aligning of audio tracks.
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Wulfraed
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Re: R8 positioning of wav samples?

Post by Wulfraed » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:15 am

pcal wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:19 pm
Wulfraed wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:48 pm
Mainly that the entire R-series lack inter- and intra- track editing
OK... I guess I missed that while doing my research. It seems like such a fundamental feature, I assumed a device capable of so much would of course be able to do that.
When one looks at them, the impression one gets is that that manufacturers no longer expect them to be used as fully stand-alone editing stations, instead using them as front-ends for a computer setup.

As mentioned, the BOSS BR-800 also lacked such editing when first released, although Roland/BOSS were able to add them back in with a firmware patch. But they did not add in the project cleanup function (BOSS units maintain all track data as a massive file using an auxiliary file containing edit points ["event list"] -- IE; listings of start point and end point for each track and clip. On the BR-600, eventually the edit list is filled and one has to clean the project ["song optimize"] which rewrites all the tracks as single clips and resets the edit list; the BR-800's only saving grace here is that it can store 30_000 events per project vs the BR-600 limit of 2_000).
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IISS Elusive Unicorn (detached)

Superscope PSD-300; BOSS BR-600, Zoom HD16cd, Zoom R16, BOSS BR-800, Zoom H2n
Now to (re)learn to play an instrument

Lanikai S-C, SMC-E; GoldTone Banjo-Uke; Flatiron 1C, A5; Big Muddy M1-W; Ovation MM68AX, CSE-44; Orpheus Valley Fiesta FS; Taylor NS-72ce, T5-S1; Musima (4st, 20 fret, tenor-tuned) banjo; bongos, dumbeks, bodhrans, hand drum, tambourine; recorder: soprano, alto, tenor; Cedar Flute (5 sizes); Pennywhistle (3 keys); Casio keyboards

pcal
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Re: R8 positioning of wav samples?

Post by pcal » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:49 am

Wulfraed wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:48 pm
Your best route is probably to set the tempo of the project to a value where 16th notes are at the resolution you can live with...
Actually found that the quantise can be set all the way up to 1/48. Spent some time playing with it, and seem to have got it to a useful point with multiple 1shot loops in the sequencer.

But...

Now that I am ready to try downmixing the sequence to a master track, I seem not to be able to arm the master track for recording while the sequencer is in use. And if I drop out of the Sequencer, I just get an endless loop of all my files going off at the same time. The only recording I seem able to trigger is wanting to add new events to the sequence, not encode the sequence to a wav / mp3.

Is there another trick I've missed? Or, (horror of horrors) is the Sequencer intended only for live performance and the R8 can not record a sequence?

Thanks in anticipation,

Pcal
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Wulfraed
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Re: R8 positioning of wav samples?

Post by Wulfraed » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:27 am

Are you set for BOUNCE/MASTER?

Page 72 of the manual indicates that bouncing the sequencer is possible, and have you turned off STEP INPUT?
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Baron Wulfraed
IISS Elusive Unicorn (detached)

Superscope PSD-300; BOSS BR-600, Zoom HD16cd, Zoom R16, BOSS BR-800, Zoom H2n
Now to (re)learn to play an instrument

Lanikai S-C, SMC-E; GoldTone Banjo-Uke; Flatiron 1C, A5; Big Muddy M1-W; Ovation MM68AX, CSE-44; Orpheus Valley Fiesta FS; Taylor NS-72ce, T5-S1; Musima (4st, 20 fret, tenor-tuned) banjo; bongos, dumbeks, bodhrans, hand drum, tambourine; recorder: soprano, alto, tenor; Cedar Flute (5 sizes); Pennywhistle (3 keys); Casio keyboards

pcal
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Re: R8 positioning of wav samples?

Post by pcal » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:41 am

pcal wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:49 am
Is there another trick I've missed?
Yes I figured it out... Didn't realise that entering the Sequencer from the track menu wasn't the same thing as selecting the Sequencer soft button from the main screen. The answer always seems so obvious once you know what it is...

Cheers.
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