Master Effect Weirdness

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Wound3rd
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Master Effect Weirdness

Post by Wound3rd » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:26 am

Hello,

I purchased an R24 about a year ago and I love it! After figuring out the basics and You Tubing a lot I've been able to do some decent home recording. When I create a master track, bouncing everything to the Master Channel, I usually apply one of the effects and the setting I like a lot is "Rock Show." What I've noticed when I really get in and listen is particularly on live drums I'm getting a sort of choked sound....it's a bit like running a noise gate on my guitar and then turning the actual guitar volume knob down and the sound sputters a bit if that makes sense, because the volume gets below the threshold I've set. Doesn't seem to matter which effect I use, It's not so noticeable that it totally ruins the track but I can hear it and would love to eliminate it. I've tried toying with settings, not going in the red or anything like that. Is there something I need to set differently? I've left it pretty much as it came on any EQ settings and I'm not really a whiz on that kind of thing. I tweak until I like the sound basically LOL! Anyone else experience this or know what causes it and how to eliminate it? Thanks!
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Re: Master Effect Weirdness

Post by Wulfraed » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:50 pm

Not enough experience to be sure of anything but... "sputtering" on drums sounds more like symptom of clipping/overdriving the output.

If you are only hearing it when a mastering effect is active (I presume you set the insert position to "master" -- where it applies /before/ the fader), check the effect output level "TOTAL". Might also want to check the ZNR level. Things like drums are so short that often level meters can not track them accurately.
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Wound3rd
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Re: Master Effect Weirdness

Post by Wound3rd » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:03 pm

Thanks for the reply! It's set to Master. I'll have to look up the effect output level total and ZNR....not sure I remember seeing those but once I set it to Master I left it alone. I'll check it out when I get a few minutes and report back. Thanks again!
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Re: Master Effect Weirdness

Post by Jim_Fogle » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:32 pm

ZNR is the abbreviation for Zoom Noise Reduction which is essentially Zoom's version of a gate. Playing with those settings would be a great place to start. I did not think of Wulfraed's suggestion to check the total output level is a good one I didn't think about until I read his response.

An easy way that I check if waveforms are overdriven is to import the file into Audacity https://www.audacityteam.org/. Every sample that is overdriven will be highlighted by being shown as red instead of blue which is the standard color Audacity uses.

The master output waveform is created by summing all tracks. You can overdrive the master even though none of the individual files are close to 0 db. Remember 0 db in the digital domain actually should be 0dbFS with the FS shorthand for Full Scale. You can't add anything to a full scale reading.
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Re: Master Effect Weirdness

Post by Wound3rd » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:51 pm

Well.....I was familiar with ZNR from an old Zoom Bass Preamp I have but I looked it up in the manual and.....there's no "Z" in the Index! But I started fiddling with the menu in the Effect button, followed the arrows and found it. I believe the ZNR is indeed the culprit. It was set at 10 so I tried gradually lowering it but even set at 1, I noticed the scratchy, choked sound on the cymbals on the last big crash as the sound faded out. Kind of a shame as I had noticed that adding the Mastering Effect reduced a little buzz if I was using single coil pickups. I suppose I will try to use judicious noise reduction on the front end with my guitars as needed. I can live with a little 60 cycle hum better than cymbals that don't ring out. Thanks so much for the help Wulfraed and Jim! I thought it might be noise reduction but I had no idea where to look for it and this pointed me in the right direction.
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Re: Master Effect Weirdness

Post by sciurius » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:22 am

You wrote you are "bouncing everything to the Master Channel", aplying effect. You can also bounce each track individually and apply different ZNR settings for guitar and cymbals.

(Disclaimer: I have no experience with bouncing, I looked it up in the manual.)
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Re: Master Effect Weirdness

Post by Wulfraed » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:26 am

Wound3rd wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:51 pm
Well.....I was familiar with ZNR from an old Zoom Bass Preamp I have but I looked it up in the manual and.....there's no "Z" in the Index! But I started fiddling with the menu in the Effect button, followed the arrows and found it. I believe the ZNR is indeed the culprit. It was set at 10 so I tried gradually lowering it but even set at 1, I noticed the scratchy, choked sound on
Supposedly, you can also turn it fully off. Manual page 119. Also, take time to study the diagram on page 78. For example, ZNR tends to be applied in the middle of the chain (ie; before modulation/delay stages), but is /set/ as part of the final /total/ page.
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Superscope PSD-300; BOSS BR-600, Zoom HD16cd, Zoom R16, BOSS BR-800, Zoom H2n
Now to (re)learn to play an instrument

Lanikai S-C, SMC-E; GoldTone Banjo-Uke; Flatiron 1C, A5; Big Muddy M1-W; Ovation MM68AX, CSE-44; Orpheus Valley Fiesta FS; Taylor NS-72ce, T5-S1; Musima (4st, 20 fret, tenor-tuned) banjo; bongos, dumbeks, bodhrans, hand drum, tambourine; recorder: soprano, alto, tenor; Cedar Flute (5 sizes); Pennywhistle (3 keys); Casio keyboards

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