Zoom MS-100BT/B1X/G3n noiseEXAMPLES

Questions and answers related to any Zoom Gear that doesn't have its own sub-forum yet. This includes any new gear that's been announced, and any old gear you've got. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
Post Reply
stubbsonic
dues paid
dues paid
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:24 pm

Zoom MS-100BT/B1X/G3n noiseEXAMPLES

Post by stubbsonic » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:49 am

On another thread, I posted about an issue with the MS-100BT and a bit of distortion. I'm not sure what category this type of distortion falls under. Perhaps "quantization noise"? It seems to be digital in nature, and reminds me of bit-reduction.

I did a test to provide sonic examples. I made a test tone of a 100 Hz sine wave, decaying from 0 dBs to -96 dBs. I ran that through the MS-100BT, the B1X Four, and also the G3n. The resulting audio has the noise I've noticed with my bass guitar. For those who might have a hard time hearing it, I did a "null" with the original sine to bring up the noise. The reason there wasn't more significant cancellation in the null has to do with discrepancies between the original sine and the sines coming back from the devices. I can't determine the reasons for the difference, perhaps the level changes throughout the fade, also, some harmonic distortion.

In this zipped folder are 7 wav files. The original clean sine, the sines through each of the boxes, and then examples with the noise brought up by nulling the original sine.

As you will hear, the issue is quite noticeable with the MS100BT, and less noticeable with the B1X Four. The G3n has a similar quality of noise as the B1X Four, but the G3n's noise is a bit quieter. The G3n's noise profile is most workable, the B1X Four is actually fairly tolerable, as it is mostly adding some odd harmonics to the sine. The MS-100BT is pretty bad.



http://www.jonstubbsmusic.com/misc/Zoom ... amples.zip
0 x

stubbsonic
dues paid
dues paid
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:24 pm

Re: Zoom MS-100BT/B1X/G3n noiseEXAMPLES

Post by stubbsonic » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:35 am

As you listen to the examples, you may be tempted to conclude that the issue with the signal on the B1X Four or G3n is not noticeable enough to be a concern. And this is generally true.

However, I was going through presets and touching them up, and I noticed that some of the amp sims and pre-amps tended to boost the parts of the spectrum where these sonic artifacts exist. So it is not merely a matter of harmonic distortion and/or bit-reduced quantization garbage on the DRY signal, it is also a matter of how these distortions get enhanced in some (not all) of the DSP processes.

If you are considering a G1 Four or B1 Four, it is worth being aware of this short-coming. I don't think it is a deal-breaker.

Often the criticisms of inexpensive effect units is very vague. I hope that this report (with examples) of this VERY specific issue can help someone make an informed purchase decision and avoid disappointment.
0 x

Nhoj
senior member
senior member
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 am

Re: Zoom MS-100BT/B1X/G3n noiseEXAMPLES

Post by Nhoj » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:55 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:35 am
As you listen to the examples, you may be tempted to conclude that the issue with the signal on the B1X Four or G3n is not noticeable enough to be a concern. And this is generally true.

However, I was going through presets and touching them up, and I noticed that some of the amp sims and pre-amps tended to boost the parts of the spectrum where these sonic artifacts exist. So it is not merely a matter of harmonic distortion and/or bit-reduced quantization garbage on the DRY signal, it is also a matter of how these distortions get enhanced in some (not all) of the DSP processes.

If you are considering a G1 Four or B1 Four, it is worth being aware of this short-coming. I don't think it is a deal-breaker.

Often the criticisms of inexpensive effect units is very vague. I hope that this report (with examples) of this VERY specific issue can help someone make an informed purchase decision and avoid disappointment.
Right! Like what im saying , its about the price
0 x

stubbsonic
dues paid
dues paid
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:24 pm

Re: Zoom MS-100BT/B1X/G3n noiseEXAMPLES

Post by stubbsonic » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:01 pm

That's not really what I'm saying.

There are examples (both Zoom and other manufactures) where the signal quality has nothing to do with price. The MS-100BT cost more than the G3n or B1X Four, but has worse signal. There are countless examples with other manufacturers where price doesn't correspond with quality.

What I was saying is that when people dismiss cheaper gear as "garbage" or "a toy", they never give specific reasons why they say that. And specifically with Zoom gear, I wondered why it was so under-rated. This particular flaw is a good reason, but I NEVER saw anyone mention it.
0 x

Nhoj
senior member
senior member
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:28 am

Re: Zoom MS-100BT/B1X/G3n noiseEXAMPLES

Post by Nhoj » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:04 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:01 pm
That's not really what I'm saying.

There are examples (both Zoom and other manufactures) where the signal quality has nothing to do with price. The MS-100BT cost more than the G3n or B1X Four, but has worse signal. There are countless examples with other manufacturers where price doesn't correspond with quality.

What I was saying is that when people dismiss cheaper gear as "garbage" or "a toy", they never give specific reasons why they say that. And specifically with Zoom gear, I wondered why it was so under-rated. This particular flaw is a good reason, but I NEVER saw anyone mention it.
im saying people that are expecting too much for the price range, and what your say is people are people, they will say what they want even if its no reasoning and no sense
0 x

stubbsonic
dues paid
dues paid
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:24 pm

Re: Zoom MS-100BT/B1X/G3n noiseEXAMPLES

Post by stubbsonic » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:16 am

I never said that.

Yes, people are people. But we're all different. I don't make a generalization.

And I don't think it is unreasonable to have high expectations, even from inexpensive gear.

The general "curve" of cost:value (X:Y) in hardware and software is non-linear. It varies wildly between devices, plugs/apps, and makers. You can't just say that "inexpensive = bad" or "expensive = good". Though generally, that is true, it is much more complicated than that. And it is more dependent on individual tastes and needs. So it requires buyers to do lots of research: read reviews, watch demo vids, maybe even buy (with an option to return)-- to see if the device/software lives up to expectations.
0 x

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest