MS-100BT Recent show

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stubbsonic
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MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:43 pm

I just played a music theater show that required fairly frequent FX changes. I did the whole show without an amp (plugged in to a DI for the house, and thru to a powered monitor).

I was limited for space (especially on the floor) so I opted to make it work with only the MS-100BT (and graphic EQ on the monitor to rid of the hyped low-end). I chose the FD Combo across the board. It was the right sound for the "period"

I managed to get it all to work with just this one pedal. The 26 (A-Z) quick changes weren't quite enough, so I did manual list changes for part of teh show, and for one song I exited the patch list and used the footswitch to turn the tremolo on/off throughout a song. Then I returned to the list and resumed the alphabet. The only hitch was that once I had determined my effects flow for the show (and marked my book with the changes), any effects I wanted to insert into the sequence would require a major overhaul. In hindsight, it might have been smart to insert some "space holders" i.e., so I might only need to re-do half or a third. Sonically, I got everything I needed and it sounded GREAT!

Another show I'm playing requires fast switches to acoustic. I'm using the ac gtr sim and it works really well with my modded strat. (I did the pick-up blender mod-- and the acoustic sounds nice with bridge & neck mixed (sans middle pickup).

I'm about to do a show that features 80's glam rock. I'll need to decide between the Pod HD500 or the MS-100BT. I'm guessing the Pod will probably be what I use, but I will compare the marshall & soldano pretty carefully.
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stubbsonic
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:18 am

The Pod HD500 is fine. Of course, it is more flexible and easier to use in a show context. I'm using the MS-100BT for the Ac Sim, and the Pod for everything else.

One quickly obvious thing as that the Zoom's tremolo is smoother and more like a real one. No matter what I do, I can't make the Pod's tremolo sound right.
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stubbsonic
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:06 am

I'm patching the MS-100BT into the FX Loop on the Pod HD500. That works well to combine the strengths of both. I use the Ac Sim, and though it is has kind of painful high end (I dialed the "top" way down) and EQ'ed it pretty agressively, part of that might be due to the speaker I'm using.

The MS-100BT suffers from picking up the wireless mics (see the my thread about Ferrite Beads), the Pod-HD500 does not. But the Ac Sim is essential for this setup.
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NucleusX
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by NucleusX » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:32 am

I own both a POD HD Pro (which is pretty much the rack version of the HD500), and all of Zooms MultiStomps, and have played
with them together in many configurations. I think the POD's greatest strength is the amp simulation, and its greatest weakness
to be DSP horsepower. The MultiStomps greatest weakness happens to be amp sims. The high pitched artefacts in their amp sims
didn't help Zoom much in that department, at-least in that series of their pedals, but the strength here seems to be quality FX
selection. In the end i stuck with having the POD handling all the amp staging, and the Zooms handling all the FX duties. Seems
to balance the pro's and con's out well imo. I found this particularly evident when you run 2/Dual amp sims in the POD HD
simultaneously for stereo panning, the 2 amps alone consume about %80 of my DSP horsepower. Not much DSP left over for
a decent palette of FX to go with them, the MultiStomps solved that problem. Had the MultiStomps performed as intended across
the board without issue, the clear choice for amp simulation would still be the POD HD. On paper, and specification-wise, its
hardware is superior in every way. It just made perfect sense dedicating the POD HD to amp tasks instead, as a first priority.
The lack of user loadable IR's in the POD HD would be my only unsolvable problem. Hope you got something useful from that. ;)
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stubbsonic
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:24 am

Thanks, NucleusX. That's useful.

For me, the problem with the MS-100BT's amp sims is the lack flexibility in editing. I mostly like the sounds and variety. A couple of the bass amps in the zoom pedal are quite good. The zoom has more impressive variety, and I like the character. The "high pitched artifacts" might go beyond my range of hearing (age related)-- so I hadn't noticed them. The Pod HD has it's obvious advantages in editing, i/o, switching, etc.

But as you say, the ability to route an effect insert into the chain and use the Zoom for what it is good for is ideal. If my Pod HD500 had a second insert, I'd be thrilled.
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NucleusX
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by NucleusX » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:35 am

Yeh, a bit of reading on google will reveal reports of the high pitched artefacts, i can certainly notice it in mine, both in the
MS-50G and the MS-100BT. I agree with you on the bass amps, i've gotten some interesting and pleasing results using those
on 6 stringers. As for you're second FX loop idea, i faced that myself. 3 points to break into the PODs chain (excluding auxiliary
and mic). Input, FX loop, and Outputs. Originally i had all 3 at work, then later realized i was doing myself a dis-service by
using a Zoom at its front-end input. Once you do this, you take away a lot of the amp-sim picking dynamics the POD HD
strives to achieve. Definitely something to consider if you're playing style is sensitive to those dynamics.
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stubbsonic
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:48 am

I don't notice problems with picking dynamics with the MS-100, but I wonder if that is because I've mostly been using it for clean or only slightly overdriven sounds.

Maybe the artifacts are more with big distortions which I almost never use.
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NucleusX
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by NucleusX » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:16 pm

Both the picking dynamics, and artifacts become more evident in the mid to high gain scenario's. Seem to be at their
minimum in clean channel. To replicate it, try the Alien amp-sim (ENGL Invader) via headphones or FRFR speakers in
Line mode. I found going through guitar cabs mask it to a good degree, and tend to filter out the higher frequencies.
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stubbsonic
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:35 pm

Seems like one possible remedy for a high-gain scenario is to put a good analog drive pedal before the MS-100BT. I have two MS-100BTs, so I can use them for non-high-gain effects (comp, delay, modulation FX, etc, etc) and have a few other drive things external. Fortunately, my tastes & expectations for high-gain are NOT very sophisticated.
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:47 pm

I'm into another show (Always Patsy Cline) which requires pretty clean twangy tones.

I've got my strat going into ZNR (a great noise gate, BTW), into the limiter, into an FD Combo, out to delay or trem, and Spring 63. It's a good basic tone.

I did try the POD HD500, and probably could have gotten a nice sound out of it, but after tweaking it for a while, it still sounded weird. I'm sure I've got it basically set up correctly, it wasn't wrong, per se, just not as nice sounding as the MS-100BT. I think this zoom pedal is really great for clean tones.
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stubbsonic
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:43 am

I have to switch back to using the POD HD500 for this Patsy Cline show.

The MS-100BT still has always had the issue of picking up wireless mics in this theater. I have two MS-100BTs and both do it, so it's not a defect.

My levels are VERY low, and I'm not using any hard distortions. At one point during a clean solo where I bump the level a few dB, a wireless mic was feeding back because of my MS pedal!! Ugh. Unacceptable. Too bad, though. I like the sound, but if the RFI is too high, it's unusable in that setting. Grrrrr!
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:38 pm

I tried the Pod HD500 at the show last night and I didn't like it. The picking, attack, dynamics weren't right for me. The tone was just weird. Less clarity, and the tone knobs and EQ didn't seem to quite get it. The dynamics were weird, too-- soft playing was louder, louder playing was compressed (no compression in the chain)-- so, less dynamics generally. I had noticed that the mics were also coming through the Pod, but at a much lower level.

EDIT: I'm going to sell the pod. I just ordered a Zoom G3n. Though it lacks some features I'd like (I'll discuss in another thread)-- if it is similar to the MS-100BT in dynamics, I'll be happy.

I mentioned the wireless mic issue which is in the process of being resolved. I should be wrapping up the final results by 3/22/18.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=24106
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stubbsonic
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Re: MS-100BT Recent show

Post by stubbsonic » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:46 am

I used my new G3n for the first time last night. The show requires a clear & clean Fender Twin sound with a tiny amount of spring reverb.

I was relieved that the G3n has the same wonderful clarity and dynamic range that the MS-100BT has. Features that the Pod HD500 and the Digitech RP255 lacked. The G3n also was an improvement as far as the sound system bleed (an ongoing mystery discussed in the other thread). So I'm going to start using the G3n for the rest of the run.

The G3n couldn't completely replace the MS-100BT, because the latter has more synths, pitch shifting, reverbs, and bass-specific modules.

I wish Zoom would apply the same comprehensive approach and make all modules available to all G3n(x), G5n and B3n, universally-- so bass & guitar doublers can access both guitar & bass effects (as with the MS-100BT). I hope the this series continues to evolve.
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