Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Questions and answers related to any Zoom Gear that doesn't have its own sub-forum yet. This includes any new gear that's been announced, and any old gear you've got. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
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Nhoj
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by Nhoj » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:59 pm

:^:
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NucleusX
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by NucleusX » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:16 am

stubbsonic wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:42 am
Nhoj, what do you mean when you say "the only issue with Gn is DSP"?

Do you mean that they should have put in a 2nd DSP chip? Because what you have been saying many times is that you think Zoom can release a firmware update to add tails.

javachris was describing MFX units with two hardware dsp chips on board, where the unit can allocate tasks to two different chips and work out routines to preserve tails through patch changes.
lol 6 pages later... I basically gave him his answer's on the first page, starting to think he's lonely and loves the spotlight. :lol:
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Nhoj
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by Nhoj » Fri May 03, 2019 8:47 am

NucleusX wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:16 am
stubbsonic wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:42 am
Nhoj, what do you mean when you say "the only issue with Gn is DSP"?

Do you mean that they should have put in a 2nd DSP chip? Because what you have been saying many times is that you think Zoom can release a firmware update to add tails.

javachris was describing MFX units with two hardware dsp chips on board, where the unit can allocate tasks to two different chips and work out routines to preserve tails through patch changes.
lol 6 pages later... I basically gave him his answer's on the first page, starting to think he's lonely and loves the spotlight. :lol:
lol awesome assesstment of me good job! :lol:

Anyway maybe its Zoom is done with updates so its :^:

btw still using G3Xn as my main axe multi effects, im looking for other brands as backup Zoom G1X memory lacking for me

My mind is confused right now, i really like my G3Xn sound, im thinking of buying another backup, i sold all my other multi effects, G3Xn is the only one i got , any affordable brand that sounds good?
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Nhoj
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by Nhoj » Fri May 03, 2019 9:47 am

NucleusX wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:16 am
stubbsonic wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:42 am
Nhoj, what do you mean when you say "the only issue with Gn is DSP"?

Do you mean that they should have put in a 2nd DSP chip? Because what you have been saying many times is that you think Zoom can release a firmware update to add tails.

javachris was describing MFX units with two hardware dsp chips on board, where the unit can allocate tasks to two different chips and work out routines to preserve tails through patch changes.
lol 6 pages later... I basically gave him his answer's on the first page, starting to think he's lonely and loves the spotlight. :lol:
Maybe im not welcome here anymore?
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stubbsonic
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by stubbsonic » Sat May 04, 2019 5:49 pm

Nhoj wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:47 am
any affordable brand that sounds good?
First of all, NucleusX made a comment that wasn't very nice, but I think he was just joking. Please try not to take it personally. But yea, it was a little mean. He's just one person. You are welcome here!!

As for other affordable brands that sound good, the trick is-- what is affordable.

Fractal's stuff (Axe FX) gets great reviews, but ain't cheap. I think Digitech's stuff is pretty decent-- especially the newer stuff. I like that Boss effects are often very tweakable and have deep editing, but I'm not wild about those distortions, and the reverbs are pretty awful. My experiences with Line6 gear have been pretty negative. I just don't like they way they sound or respond. Hard to get a good sound even with lots of edits.

I've been enjoying my Eleven Rack. I got a great deal on it ($200)-- it doesn't have a wide selection of effects or amps, but has a good basic selection. It's a rack mount effects (it's also an audio/MIDI interface, but it works in stand-alone mode). You can watch eBay and find them for under $200. It sounds amazing, and is incredibly powerful. If you need stomp control, you'll need a separate floor controller. It has full MIDI implementation, so you can set anything up via MIDI. Worth looking at. It's the best deal I can think of.
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by Nhoj » Sun May 05, 2019 5:58 am

stubbsonic wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:49 pm
Nhoj wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:47 am
any affordable brand that sounds good?
First of all, NucleusX made a comment that wasn't very nice, but I think he was just joking. Please try not to take it personally. But yea, it was a little mean. He's just one person. You are welcome here!!
Thank you for saying that , im also passionate devoted Zoom user, thank you for being nicer, yes your right one guy atitude does not reflect the whole community, its awesome to have people like you that stand up for being nicer and friendly!
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NucleusX
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by NucleusX » Sun May 05, 2019 7:38 am

Of course you're welcome here, and yes it was in a joking context. :D No offense intended.
It's that you keep circling back to an argument you seem to be repeating in this thread and
a few others, which is your thoughts on trail's and unsatisfied with the DSP resources available
to you. Have to admit its a bit confusing when you say you're totally satisfied, but continue to
circle back to what you're not satisfied with lol. I understand your perspective, i really do. But
at the end of the day, we just have to accept some of these things and just get on with it, even
if that means upgrading to something more suited to our needs. Peace.
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stubbsonic
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by stubbsonic » Mon May 06, 2019 11:45 am

I understand that perspective too!! I've gone round and round about various rig setups.

I love my strat and G3n (and MS-100BT). But my GK equipped guitar does give me some modeling options which are fun-- and useful, but those amps & effects on the GP-10 just aren't anywhere near as good as the Zoom stuff. It's also not responsive in the right way. Now I use the strat + zoom for most things, and the GK/GP-10 setup when absolutely necessary. I'm now putting an analog distortion after the GP-10 which helps, also needs EQ
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by Nhoj » Mon May 06, 2019 9:54 pm

NucleusX wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:38 am
Of course you're welcome here, and yes it was in a joking context. :D No offense intended.
It's that you keep circling back to an argument you seem to be repeating in this thread and
a few others, which is your thoughts on trail's and unsatisfied with the DSP resources available
to you. Have to admit its a bit confusing when you say you're totally satisfied, but continue to
circle back to what you're not satisfied with lol. I understand your perspective, i really do. But
at the end of the day, we just have to accept some of these things and just get on with it, even
if that means upgrading to something more suited to our needs. Peace.
Thank you!I always disagree with destructive criticism although there a saying cant please everyone and everyone has their own opinion and i respect that, but im always open to constructive critism and i like it being contructively criticize with some constructive banter, no worries! :^:
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by Nhoj » Mon May 06, 2019 9:56 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 11:45 am
I understand that perspective too!! I've gone round and round about various rig setups.

I love my strat and G3n (and MS-100BT). But my GK equipped guitar does give me some modeling options which are fun-- and useful, but those amps & effects on the GP-10 just aren't anywhere near as good as the Zoom stuff. It's also not responsive in the right way. Now I use the strat + zoom for most things, and the GK/GP-10 setup when absolutely necessary. I'm now putting an analog distortion after the GP-10 which helps, also needs EQ
Since you mention guitar synths , ive used roland gr's from the past, im now using Fishman Triple Play MIDI Pickup :^:
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by stubbsonic » Tue May 07, 2019 11:22 am

The GK setup I have is mostly "modeling" similar to the Line 6 Variax. There are some synths in GP-10, but it mostly uses DSP to shape the sound into other guitars/pickups/etc.

I've heard good things about the Fishman in terms of fast tracking.

At some point I want to work out a good pitch-to-midi rig for triggering samples with my bass.
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by Nhoj » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:00 am

maybe no update is coming
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by stubbsonic » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:08 pm

Definitely, no update is coming. Do not hold your breath! Breath normally. :)
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by Nhoj » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:26 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:08 pm
Definitely, no update is coming. Do not hold your breath! Breath normally. :)
we hope zoom will do a higher powerful DSP so trails between patches will be possible without affecting other effects and features for their next guitar effects

i saw the ge300 have dsp limit

Image
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by stubbsonic » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:23 am

It's helpful you put that screen grab up. It shows that the trails support COULD be implemented in an effects device without requiring lots of extra CPU overhead.

The way it works is that you have either delay or reverb "parked" in the CPU. So as you switch between presets, you keep the SAME delay and/or reverb algorithm, and the other effects swap out instantly as you switch. Changing the settings of the persistently loaded reverb/delay is more trivial as you are not having to load an entirely new DSP process, you're simply adjusting it (as you switch presets). This could even be done "click-free" if you have the values ramp during the preset switch. Again, this doesn't require a huge CPU overhead. I would expect that this architecture would need to be built in from the ground up, (i.e., it wouldn't be added in an update), because it is a pretty low level process.

OTOH, if Mooer can add it to the GE300, perhaps it is possible. I hate to get your hopes up. Zoom hasn't done these kinds of major feature updates. It is possible that Mooer had it planned all along, but couldn't get it out in the initial firmware.
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by Nhoj » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:13 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:23 am
It's helpful you put that screen grab up. It shows that the trails support COULD be implemented in an effects device without requiring lots of extra CPU overhead.

The way it works is that you have either delay or reverb "parked" in the CPU. So as you switch between presets, you keep the SAME delay and/or reverb algorithm, and the other effects swap out instantly as you switch. Changing the settings of the persistently loaded reverb/delay is more trivial as you are not having to load an entirely new DSP process, you're simply adjusting it (as you switch presets). This could even be done "click-free" if you have the values ramp during the preset switch. Again, this doesn't require a huge CPU overhead. I would expect that this architecture would need to be built in from the ground up, (i.e., it wouldn't be added in an update), because it is a pretty low level process.

OTOH, if Mooer can add it to the GE300, perhaps it is possible. I hate to get your hopes up. Zoom hasn't done these kinds of major feature updates. It is possible that Mooer had it planned all along, but couldn't get it out in the initial firmware.
Boss GT1000 and some old Boss GT models have it, will Boss do it on their next affordable multi, we dont know?
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Re: Zoom Gn series Seamless Delay/Reverb Trails/Tails between patches and banks

Post by stubbsonic » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:15 am

Do you know if the GE300 or the GT1000 have a "fixed path"? I.e., where you can't change the order of the series of effects?

That's the other thing about Zoom FX that complicates things. You can have things in different orders, so it would be hard to maintain a continuous signal flow if you have to break the path to insert a new effect module with a preset switch.

Another approach could be to have a "morph/snapshot" switch mode which takes a single preset and links a bunch of parameters to the footswitches. So, for example each switch could be linked to turn some effects on/off and reduce/increase parameter values-- while the same preset is loaded. That would provide tails and some degree of sonic change, but not cause the DSP to have to reset any signal path elements.
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