Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Questions and answers related to any Zoom Gear that doesn't have its own sub-forum yet. This includes any new gear that's been announced, and any old gear you've got. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
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stubbsonic
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Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by stubbsonic » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:58 am

As I'm doing edits of effects in my recently acquired Boss GP-10, there are some features I like. The non-graphic UI isn't as eye-pleasing, but access is given to lots of parameters, and the layout is logical. Most of the effects are fine. The guitar models (for the GK-13 interface) are quite good.

As I mentioned in another thread there is a loss of dynamics in the Boss compared to either Zoom pedal I use (MS-100BT or G3n). I've tried lowering levels of various effects, but it seems to be baked into the ADC (analog-to-digital) and/or DAC (digital-to-analog) or some point in between. Also, the amp sims aren't as satisfying to use. The sounds are just ok, but they don't have much life to them. (I'm sorry to use such vague terms.) There's not much high end definition in the fenders, and though I can dial in more top, it doesn't sound right.

The various BOSS distortion fx (overdrive, crunch, fuzz, etc.) they all have a similar quality, as though they are taking the same overdrive and EQ'ing it differently. As I go through all the effects of that type, there really is almost no variety. It sounds like different presets of the same basic overdrive.

This is where my Zoom pedals shine-- all the amp sims and distortions all have very distinct character, and I can always find a distortion I like. I know people have very specific tastes with distortion and there are justifiable complaints about Zoom's distortions. But I can go through and load all those different distortion models on the zoom pedals and hear very different approaches to the sound which all seem quite musical to my ear.

I wouldn't be surprised if later Boss effects have improved upon the amp sims and/or distortions. Line 6 has certainly improved their once-mediocre distortions. I've heard other demos of Digitech stuff where the distortions were pretty OK.

I'm not picking a fight, I know people's taste in distortions are their own. I'm just noticing the GP-10 was easily bested by my Zoomies.
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Nhoj
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by Nhoj » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:55 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:58 am
As I'm doing edits of effects in my recently acquired Boss GP-10, there are some features I like. The non-graphic UI isn't as eye-pleasing, but access is given to lots of parameters, and the layout is logical. Most of the effects are fine. The guitar models (for the GK-13 interface) are quite good.

As I mentioned in another thread there is a loss of dynamics in the Boss compared to either Zoom pedal I use (MS-100BT or G3n). I've tried lowering levels of various effects, but it seems to be baked into the ADC (analog-to-digital) and/or DAC (digital-to-analog) or some point in between. Also, the amp sims aren't as satisfying to use. The sounds are just ok, but they don't have much life to them. (I'm sorry to use such vague terms.) There's not much high end definition in the fenders, and though I can dial in more top, it doesn't sound right.

The various BOSS distortion fx (overdrive, crunch, fuzz, etc.) they all have a similar quality, as though they are taking the same overdrive and EQ'ing it differently. As I go through all the effects of that type, there really is almost no variety. It sounds like different presets of the same basic overdrive.

This is where my Zoom pedals shine-- all the amp sims and distortions all have very distinct character, and I can always find a distortion I like. I know people have very specific tastes with distortion and there are justifiable complaints about Zoom's distortions. But I can go through and load all those different distortion models on the zoom pedals and hear very different approaches to the sound which all seem quite musical to my ear.

I wouldn't be surprised if later Boss effects have improved upon the amp sims and/or distortions. Line 6 has certainly improved their once-mediocre distortions. I've heard other demos of Digitech stuff where the distortions were pretty OK.

I'm not picking a fight, I know people's taste in distortions are their own. I'm just noticing the GP-10 was easily bested by my Zoomies.
That was im saying about Boss/Roland stomps/drive/distortion simulations they have no dynamics at all, also the boss amp and distortions qualilty very fizzy very too much digitally in character.

Im really impressed how Zoom updated their technology. Zoom Sound more analogish!Thats why im chose Zoom!
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stubbsonic
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by stubbsonic » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:17 pm

Nhoj wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:55 pm
That was im saying about Boss/Roland stomps/drive/distortion simulations they have no dynamics at all, also the boss amp and distortions qualilty very fizzy very too much digitally in character.

Im really impressed how Zoom updated their technology. Zoom Sound more analogish!Thats why im chose Zoom!
Yea. I agree. "Fizzy" is a good word for it. The distortion isn't terrible to me, but it's just weird how they have so many "stomps" in that section that all basically sound the same. When I go through presets in the G3n or MS box, they really do sound like completely different DSP.

I recently played a friend's guitar through his Line 6 Helix. It felt very dynamic to me. Perhaps Line 6 has improved something? It was only a couple of minutes of playing with another person's guitar, so I can't say for sure it was any different than previous Pod HD offerings. Also, I wasn't really banging on it. It was after all another person's guitar, and I was trying to emulate his playing (while he checked the sound in the house).
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by Nhoj » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:55 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:17 pm
Nhoj wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:55 pm
That was im saying about Boss/Roland stomps/drive/distortion simulations they have no dynamics at all, also the boss amp and distortions qualilty very fizzy very too much digitally in character.

Im really impressed how Zoom updated their technology. Zoom Sound more analogish!Thats why im chose Zoom!
Yea. I agree. "Fizzy" is a good word for it. The distortion isn't terrible to me, but it's just weird how they have so many "stomps" in that section that all basically sound the same. When I go through presets in the G3n or MS box, they really do sound like completely different DSP.

I recently played a friend's guitar through his Line 6 Helix. It felt very dynamic to me. Perhaps Line 6 has improved something? It was only a couple of minutes of playing with another person's guitar, so I can't say for sure it was any different than previous Pod HD offerings. Also, I wasn't really banging on it. It was after all another person's guitar, and I was trying to emulate his playing (while he checked the sound in the house).
Yes Line6 improved their technology over the years also, what i really dont get it is why roland and boss didnt.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by stubbsonic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:16 am

Yea, I almost think these companies need to take their signature artists and sit down at a table and say: "What would be most valuable to us would be your honest criticisms of our current products and how we can improve them."

I think the Boss effects (like the GT-1000, for example) have kind of followed line6 with parallel routing, and more flexible assignment of foot switches, etc. They've increased their processor power, and added more models.

There must have been something or someone(s) in the Zoom development team that allowed them to do more interesting work.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by Nhoj » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:26 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:16 am
Yea, I almost think these companies need to take their signature artists and sit down at a table and say: "What would be most valuable to us would be your honest criticisms of our current products and how we can improve them."

I think the Boss effects (like the GT-1000, for example) have kind of followed line6 with parallel routing, and more flexible assignment of foot switches, etc. They've increased their processor power, and added more models.

There must have been something or someone(s) in the Zoom development team that allowed them to do more interesting work.
Honestly the sound of Boss didnt change for better even if they maybe followed line6, people are saying that.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by Nhoj » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:29 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:16 am
There must have been something or someone(s) in the Zoom development team that allowed them to do more interesting work.
I notice that Zoom have been quiet for a while, no updates for months, and they are now focused on video recording, maybe this N series is the last multi effects line, just maybe.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by stubbsonic » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:14 am

I don't know anything about the structure or procedures of those kinds of companies. The "B-word" company has been quite focused on synthesizers of late, and probably doesn't do much in the way of development of updates for current products except to fix bugs.

Ideally, a company would take a hardware platform, design a product's firmware with some room to grow, and then take it to some elegant and logical "pinnacle". Where there are no bugs, and the features & functionality exceeds the needs of some majority of users.

In reality, they try to balance tolerable bug and product weaknesses to keep costs low and customers content.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by Nhoj » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:43 pm

stubbsonic wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:14 am
I don't know anything about the structure or procedures of those kinds of companies. The "B-word" company has been quite focused on synthesizers of late, and probably doesn't do much in the way of development of updates for current products except to fix bugs.

Ideally, a company would take a hardware platform, design a product's firmware with some room to grow, and then take it to some elegant and logical "pinnacle". Where there are no bugs, and the features & functionality exceeds the needs of some majority of users.

In reality, they try to balance tolerable bug and product weaknesses to keep costs low and customers content.
I just notice how the sound difference between the n series. Honestly if the chance i didnt tried any Zoom N series multi, ive never though they upgraded the sound engine and i will think that the "B-word" company still sounds better.

Sometimes company branding is overrated.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by stubbsonic » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:24 am

I didn't realize at the time that my use of "B-word" could be easily confused. I was referring to Behringer, and I was making the comparison because, like Zoom, Behringer spans a range of products (to a much larger degree than Zoom, of course), and might have to focus development resources in a way where some products get neglected. Maybe you thought I was talking about Boss?

What did you mean by the "sound difference between the n series"? Between the n-series and what? Or between different products within the N series?
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by Nhoj » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:56 am

stubbsonic wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:24 am
I didn't realize at the time that my use of "B-word" could be easily confused. I was referring to Behringer, and I was making the comparison because, like Zoom, Behringer spans a range of products (to a much larger degree than Zoom, of course), and might have to focus development resources in a way where some products get neglected. Maybe you thought I was talking about Boss?

What did you mean by the "sound difference between the n series"? Between the n-series and what? Or between different products within the N series?
Im talking about about companies that sometimes use their strategy on company branding sometimes it becoming overrated.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by Jim_Fogle » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:34 pm

You mentioned designing a product with "room to grow" . I'm sure Zoom does that because you can the evolution of ideas with products such as the MRS, their pedals, handheld recorders, field recorders and Live Track. Three realities limit building with room to grow versus making new every time: cost, hardware obsolescence and manufacturing efficiency.

Every unused pin, cable, empty board space adds cost. On one device the cost may not be huge but compound that cost over a full manufacturing run and it is substantial.

By the time there is the desire or need for the next generation in a product line the list of internal components likely changed. Integrated circuits and analog devices used in the prior generation may not be available or the cost may have changed so much a part can not be used. It is pretty easy to adapt firmware to new parts.

I would be surprised if the manufacturing run for each Zoom product is over 5,000 devices. Zoom likely contracts an electrical manufacturer to build the boards and assemble the products. The devices are all created within a specified time period and the end product is delivered to Zoom on pallets. The contractor moves on to the next customer and manufacturing run. Meanwhile Zoom disperses the pallets to their distributors and saves a percentage of the run for warranty replacement. Very few companies design and engineer, manufacture and distribute all their products, The only ones that do that I know of are some of the Korean conglomerates like Samsung and LG.

A run of 5,000 units likely takes from 3 to 5 years to sell. Audio recording is a pretty small market when compared to say, cell phones.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by stubbsonic » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:41 am

Wow, Jim, That really puts things into perspective!! I really had no idea how many units would be built, and I'm surprised it might be so few. I might have expected that for more pricey units, but since the Zoom units are so affordable. But now that you lay it out like that, it makes sense.

When I mentioned "room to grow" I was referring to software and CPU capabilities, rather than reserved areas on circuit boards, etc. But your points make perfect sense.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by Nhoj » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:46 am

Honestly Im still contented with my G3Xn, it got all the features i need with our bands setlist and repertoire songs.

Im also hesitant of buying anything i dont need right now and giving excuse to spend my saved money. :)
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by NucleusX » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:01 am

Bit late to the party, but i wanted to make a special mention of my fave Zoom dirt models.

1. Extreme Distortion.
2. Boss Metal Zone.
3. Ibanez Tube Screamer.
4. Klon Centaur.
5. Booster.

Zoom did an excellent job modelling these, I'm very happy with them.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by stubbsonic » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:56 am

I like the TS, and the Centaur. Also like the Dynamic Drive, CentaGold, and Sweet Drive, as well.
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Re: Zoom Distortions Win, Too.

Post by Nhoj » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:06 am

I liked all of stomp models because i can make my favorite sound out of them What i liked the most is Zooms affordability of price range among other competitors
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