MIDI Hell.

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jethrodumont
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MIDI Hell.

Post by jethrodumont » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:36 pm

Hey folks.

I have been Googlin' and fiddlin' around with this MIDI setup of mine for the past hour and still can't figure it out. In short, here is my setup.

Yamaha MU5 Tone Generator Synth. (Midi IN/OUT)
Alesis MMT-8 Sequencer (Midi IN/OUT/THRU)
Midi Keyboard Controller (Midi IN/OUT)

To put it simply, I would like to control the Tone Generator with the Midi Keyboard, and sequence/record with the MMT-8. So when I press the C key on the keyboard, I want the MMT-8 to record that in the sequencer. I've tried every conceivable combination of IN/OUT/THRU. I really can't figure it out so I'm hoping someone can tell me which wires go where before I have an aneurysm.

Thanks in advance. :)

Edit - Maybe a MIDI splitter cable is needed...?
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voclizr
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by voclizr » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:01 pm

Hi. I wish I could help you. I do MIDI quite a bit but mine is PC based. I couldn't help but notice you use some vintage gear. The MMT 8 was a great piece of gear back in the late 80's and was marketed alongside the Alesis HR 16 drum machine. Both were some really classy toys that I always wished I could get my hands on back in my old 4 track cassette days. Perhaps Gear Sluts has a vintage gear section. Not sure, but they might. Good luck.

:D
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by jethrodumont » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:28 pm

Hey voclizr. Thanks for the response! Yeah, definitely like me some vintage gear. The MMT-8 is really just to sequence the little Yamaha synth. I'm thinking I need a splitter cable somewhere in the mix, but I really don't know. I can get the MMT-8 to sequence the synth just fine, but in order to do that I have to do MIDI IN/OUT to the MIDI OUT/IN of each machine. That leaves no room for the external keyboard, and using the "keyboard" on the MU5 (I use the word keyboard lightly) is almost impossible. So maybe I have to split the IN from the synth to go to the keyboard as well, and then the IN from the keyboard to the MMT-8, which would also be the OUT split. Lol. It's really confusing. I don't even know if that would work.

Anyway, thanks for the response. Maybe I'll check out the sluts site. :)

P.S. Love that "Maze" song man! Great job.
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by voclizr » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:19 am

jethrodumont wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:28 pm

P.S. Love that "Maze" song man! Great job.
Thanks for that. :D

I looked on the Gear Slutz site last evening and unfortunately they don't seem to cover much vintage gear. You might have a bit of a time trying to find the info you want because not too many use that type of equipment anymore. I know it's a b***h because I would imagine it would really be fun to play around with that kind of gear. I remember how much my mouth watered in the 80s for stuff like that, but it was way out of my price range. Working with MIDI has gotten so much cheaper over the last several years. But continue on your quest. You may eventually find something. Good luck! ;)

:D
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jethrodumont
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by jethrodumont » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:29 am

Thanks. It's not so much the type of equipment I think. It seems like a basic setup that still applies today, I'm just not sure how to wire it. I don't use midi much so it's foreign to me.
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by dickl » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:35 pm

I might be misunderstanding this.

Just a few things to check first of all.

I assume that all the units work?

Does the MU5 get triggered by the controller and produce an audio signal? Are there any settings on the MU5 which control the output midi channel? Following on from that are there any controls on the MMT that control what midi channel is to be recorded?

Does the MMT work just with the controller?
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by jethrodumont » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:53 pm

Hey dickl. All the units work, yes. The MU5 can either be wired to produce sound with the keyboard controller (but no sequencer then), or be sequenced with the MMT-8 with sound being triggered directly on the built-in MU5 keypad (so no keyboard controller with this wiring.) The keypad on the MU5 is not really going to cut it for most applications, hence why I want the keyboard controller to work.

Not sure what you mean by the MMT working with just the controller. The keyboard is a MIDI keyboard with no real sound module hooked up to it, so I'm not sure.

Midi channels on all the gear can be set from 1-16, but I just keep them on 1 so far. I have no problem using them together in that manner. But I'm thinking a midi cable splitter designed to split the MIDI IN of the MU5 may do the trick. That is the port that lets me control the unit with the keyboard, but also a port that needs to go to the MMT-8 to make the sequencing work. So I think that may do the trick...?

Thanks for trying to help too. I appreciate it!
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by dickl » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:47 pm

Thanks. If I can help I will. I used, and still have, a HR16 drum machine so I'm trying to relate it to that.

I wasn't thinking straight and somehow thought the controller had sounds!

I'll have a think but meanwhile have a look here http://www.mmt8.com/manual/intro.php

Cheers

Dick
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by jethrodumont » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:51 pm

Thanks Dick.

I have a few problems now that I have the synth at least sequencing on the MMT-8. The MIDI clock of the MMT-8 does not match my Zoom Sampletrak, thus the MMT-8 loops although they are recorded and set at the same BPM, end up falling out of sync with my samples on the Sampletrak.

Any ideas of some weird way to sync them up? If I add a MIDI splitter to sequence the Sampletrak with the MMT-8, that doesn't really address the pads themselves on the Sampletrak (I usually don't use the Sampletrak's sequencer and just loop pads manually, live.) So this puts me in a bit of a pickle.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by dickl » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:14 am

I had to look up the Sampletrak as I'd never heard of them before.

I'm not sure what to suggest now as I don't know anything about the ST. Are there any clock settings that might be out of sync? I seem to remember I used to have to set the HR16 clock to external or something to sync it with the CX5M I was using at the time.

I have to ask is there a specific reason for using 20 year old hardware?

Cheers

Dick
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by jethrodumont » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:19 pm

I like using vintage gear. And the MMT-8 is easy to use and hands-on (can mute/unmute tracks live), which I like.

Edit - Looks like I just need some way to "split" the MIDI IN port of the MMT-8 so both the MIDI Clock + synth can be hooked up to the same MIDI IN port...
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by dickl » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:26 am

Fair enough :)

I think I'd need to be there with the equipment and the cables as I can't really visualise what you need to do.

Good luck though!
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by Zoetrope » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:29 am

I think even if I were there I'd be left scratching my head. Gave up on Midi long ago and haven't looked back.
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by Jim_Fogle » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:11 pm

Draw a picture of all the equipment, ports and cables. Label all the cable connections. Connect the cables to match the drawing.

That's the only way I was able to get my stereo equipment to work the way I wanted. I was also able to tear it down and put it back together properly as we moved from place to place.

Pencil, eraser and one page of blank paper.
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by jethrodumont » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:19 pm

Good idea Jim, but since I'm a MIDI newb anyway I still wouldn't understand exactly, lol. I think I need to "split" one or two of the port connections, if that makes sense. In other words, there aren't enough ports it seems to do what I'm trying to do, so I either have to merge or split one of them so I can connect multiple devices to the same port.

But thanks all for the help. I've shelved it for now. I can get the keyboard controlling the synth at this point and that will have to do until I can figure it out.
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Re: MIDI Hell.

Post by Jim_Fogle » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:08 pm

jethrodumont,

If you don't understand what the midi in, out and thru ports do and how they work help is available. You can register for a free membership to MIDI.ORG. The site has a forum to ask questions AND has access to many video tutorials. https://www.midi.org/

For now, think of each port as a one way street. MIDI connections operate the same way. Information flows from MIDI OUT to MIDI IN, like this:

Device 1 --------------------- Device 2

MIDI OUT >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI IN The device 1 midi out port sends midi data to the midi in port of device 2
MIDI IN <<<<<<<<<<<<<< MIDI OUT The device 2 Midi out port sends midi data to the midi in port of device 1

So You need two MIDI cables to make a complete circle.

Sometimes you need to send midi information to two devices. MIDI THRU re-transmits midi data received at a device's MIDI IN port

Device 1 ------------------- Device 2 ---------------- Device 3

MIDI OUT >>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI IN ------------------------------- The device 1 midi out port sends midi data to the midi in port of device 2
MIDI IN <<<<<<<<<<<<<< MIDI OUT ------------------------------ The device 2 midi out port sends midi data to the midi in port of device 1
--------------------------- MIDI THRU >>>>>>>>>>>>> MIDI IN -- The MIDI THRU port of device 2 re-transmits device 1 midi out data to device 3
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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music
https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks
http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
2017 Band-in-a-Box, Music Creator 6, Audacity, Chord Pulse
Win 7 laptop i3, 8 GB DRAM, 500GB HD
Zoom MRS-8
Gibson acoustic 12-string, Peavey Predator, Line6 Variax, Yamaha keyboard and digital drums

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