DAW Software Struggles

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DAW Software Struggles

Post by CCKeys » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:13 am

: :nuts:
After about six months of enjoying creating many Projects on my R8, I've decided to graduate to using a DAW - and, being a “DAW Newbie”, I feel like I'm beginning to lose my mind...
To get off on the right foot, I bought a new laptop that meets all the requirements of any of the many DAWs that I've looked at.
After reading through lots of good info in the many threads in this forum, I expected a steep learning curve - but my experiences thus far have me cringing; and I haven't even really begun yet.
(If there's any thread that resembles a “R8 vs.DAWs For Dummies”, please point me to it?)
>Specifics:
I'm nearly a week into going back and forth with Steinberg trying to get the email to activate the bundled Cubase LE.
In the meantime, I did dl the latest R8 driver, and dl’d the trial version of PreSonus Studio One 3 Prime - but I have yet to get it to recognize my R8.
> Questions;
1. Would anyone have a recommendation for a DAW that plays nice/“easy” with the R8?
2. Do these trial versions NOT include the capacity to interface (with the R8, for example)?
3. Most importantly: Once I get everything properly set up (if ever,Lol), will I be able to “send” the 8 channels of my R8 projects “onto” the software to mess about with?
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by sciurius » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:47 am

I'm using Ardour and it plays nicely with my R24. I guess it won't have problems with the R8 either. I'm on linux, though...

I can use the R24 as audio interface (so I can record 8 channels simultaneously) and also as control surface to control several of the Ardour functions with the R24. And I can transfer the sound files of prerecorded projects to Ardour for further processing.
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by Wulfraed » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:10 pm

CCKeys wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:13 am
I'm nearly a week into going back and forth with Steinberg trying to get the email to activate the bundled Cubase LE.
I have never succeeded in getting a working Cubase LE... Wavelab LE (came with my H2n as I recall) used a local licensing scheme so that works -- but is optimized to single file editing.

The closest thing I have to a "DAW" is Vegas Pro (formerly Sony, now Magix) -- a video editing suite (with a weird history: it started life as an audio suite that added rudimentary video editing; then the video capabilities grew and grew. But all the audio editing features remain.) I suspect you aren't up to spending over $600 for Vegas Pro :?

{Correction: I also have Cakewalk Sonar LE, which is a DAW, not just a WAV editor}
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by mikethebass » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:31 pm

I have an R16 and I'm running Windows 10.

My DAWs are Audacity and Reaper.

For me Audacity is best for trimming and editing.

Reaper works with my R16 as an interface I can have any of the 8 inputs record onto any of the Reaper tracks at 44.1, 48 or 96K sample rate.
The Zoom Send Returns and Inserts don't work at any sample rate above 44.1k. This isn't a problem as you can use the Reaper fx.

I do a lot of mobile recording with the R16 as a standalone recorder then transfer the files onto the PC via the USB lead for use in Reaper.

All the Reaper tracks, I think the most I've used at any one time is 24 so far, play back through the R16 as your stereo mix.
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by CCKeys » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:12 am

I am grateful to all for your very helpful tips!
Just now, I finally got a tech at Steinberg that easily set me up with the place to enter my activation code - so, I'll let you know how that works out…
(If that fails, the comments from “mikethebass" about Reaper have me thinking that I may well try that out!)

There are two passages on the Pro Audio DVDs site that I'm hoping you all might weigh in on:
1. “This procedure presumes that you have recorded the separate tracks (Guitar, Vocals, Backing,etc) with the R16 and they have been transferred to your computer via the USB/Card option. It is not possible to access the files on the SD card on the R16 directly from Cubase.”
and…
2. “Note that you must have QuickTime installed on your computer.”

Both are news to me: The first is something I didn't realize, and sure seems like an important thing to know?
And the second is in regards to a question that I saw posed in the other thread, but I didn't see any comments or answers to?
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by sciurius » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:44 am

I guess it has something to do with the operating system you are using.
When I use the R24 as card reader, I can mount its SDcard on my local system and then it is a local file as far as the software is concerned.
Nevertheless I would always go for the copy option since I do not like to meddle with the Zoom files on the SDcard.
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by Wulfraed » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:31 pm

CCKeys wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:12 am
There are two passages on the Pro Audio DVDs site that I'm hoping you all might weigh in on:
1. “This procedure presumes that you have recorded the separate tracks (Guitar, Vocals, Backing,etc) with the R16 and they have been transferred to your computer via the USB/Card option. It is not possible to access the files on the SD card on the R16 directly from Cubase.”
and…
2. “Note that you must have QuickTime installed on your computer.”
You've never stated your OS -- and all products named so far appear to be available in Windows and Mac versions.

However, for #1, a hypothesis (I'm not going to dig mine up just to test): It may be that enabling audio interface mode (which may be required to use the control surface mode) means disabling the card reader mode. If you are not using control surface/audio interface in Cubase, you should be able to leave the R16 in card reader mode and that will create a drive letter (on Windows; Mac/Linux may auto-mount somewhere in the file system -- but those systems make everything part of the file system <G>). So accessing files would be transparent to the software.

No idea about #2, unless they expect to be using CODECs specific to QuickTime. There is this on the "about QuickTime 7" page (local file, not web):
About Roland's Sound Set for General MIDI and GS Format

This release of QuickTime includes an instrument sound set licensed from Roland Corporation that makes a complete General MIDI compatible sound set. It also includes additional sounds necessary to make a complete GS Format compatible sound set.


What is the GS Format?

The GS Format is a standardized set of specifications for sound sources that defines the manner in which multitimbral sound generating devices will respond to the MIDI messages. The GS Format complies with the General MIDI System Level - 1. The GS Format also defines a number of other details over and above the features of General MIDI. These include unique specifications for sound and functions available for tone editing, effects, and other specifications concerning the manner in which sound sources will respond to MIDI messages. Any device that is equipped with GS Format sound sources can faithfully reproduce both General MIDI sound recordings and GS Format MIDI sound recordings.
I seem to have QT7 Player installed on my Win10 box, but don't know if any extensions are associated with it (though it seems to play AVI if loaded manually -- AVI defaults to some Win10 "Movies" app).
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by CCKeys » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:13 pm

(Thanks again, Wulfraed & sciurius!)
> Scurius, I, too, would - if at all possible - only *copy* the R8 files into files on my laptop; maybe I'm overly cautious, but taking the SD card out of the R8 seems like it could get one into real trouble, Lol!
> Wulfraed, My OS is Win10 - and I'm grateful to learn that I don't need to muck about with QuickTime!
Can I take it as “real” that's its best (and/or necessary) to import the individual files within each R8 project onto the laptop, and then open them up with the DAW?
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by crowley » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:53 pm

I've never had problems copying WAVs from the SD card to laptop DAW - have used in the old Sony Acid studio, Audacity , or Reaper.

I would think Garageband would be okay.

I had success using R8 as Audio Interface for Beatmaker 2 in IOS Ipad - time to see if it still works in Beatmaker 3.
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by Wulfraed » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:58 pm

CCKeys wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:13 pm
> Wulfraed, My OS is Win10 - and I'm grateful to learn that I don't need to muck about with QuickTime!
Can I take it as “real” that's its best (and/or necessary) to import the individual files within each R8 project onto the laptop, and then open them up with the DAW?
I don't know for sure if nothing is using QT -- maybe the DVDs assume you need a MIDI instrument set of some type if the DAW supports MIDI along with WAV formats.

My preference would be to run card reader mode, and copy the project files to somewhere on the computer before using them in a DAW. That will, I believe, free the device for use as an audio interface/control surface.
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by sciurius » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:13 am

Wulfraed wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:58 pm
My preference would be to run card reader mode, and copy the project files to somewhere on the computer before using them in a DAW. That will, I believe, free the device for use as an audio interface/control surface.
Exactly. There is no need to take out the SDcard to copy the files.
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by Jim_Fogle » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:57 pm

CCKeys,

May I suggest you look at the comparison of digital audio workstations and audio editors available at Wikipedia? It is a pretty comprehensive software listing. It is available here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... io_editors. I suggest this instead of most website based comparisons because what is important to one is not necessarily important to all.

I would start with creating a list of tasks you want to use the DAW to perform. Record audio? Record midi performances? Record multiple takes then blend them together into a perfect take? Use MIDI to drive virtual instruments to create audio tracks of instruments you don't have access to? Use equalization to alter the sound of a track? On so on. Figure out WHAT you want to use the DAW to do!

Then, visit lots of DAW websites to download documentation, program demos and forums. Determine which ones work the way your mind thinks. You'll likely find different DAWs have different strengths and end up with multiple choices.
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by CCKeys » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:34 am

I use Wikipedia a lot but never thought to look there...
... and I'm quite pleasantly surprised at how comprehensive this page and the pages "within" are!
Thank you, Jim
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by zoniopoda omnicolor » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:59 pm

Jim_Fogle wrote: visit lots of DAW websites to download documentation, program demos and forums. Determine which ones work the way your mind thinks. You'll likely find different DAWs have different strengths and end up with multiple choices.
This. I think Jim's right. Most of the top DAWs do what they need to do. You'll always find many people who are bigs fans of a DAW, and others who complain about the same one. Many people like Reaper. And it's cheap. Cubase? Pro Tools? Logic? Pro Tools is like "industry standard", but I've seen people complain about one thing or another. It's a matter of deciding which one you want.

Personally, I use Reason. I just jumped right in. Zero regrets, I love it. You want to talk Proaudio DVDs? I'm a big fan of David Wills, and he loves Reason. That influenced my decision for sure. (And he has a video on Reason too). At first, I was trying to use the R8 as a control surface with Reason. It works, but it's not ideal for a couple of reasons. I also opted for a different audio interface, although I'm sure the R8 could be used). If desired, you could always record wav files on a hardware recorder, and import them into basically any DAW. Or record right into the DAW.

Anyway, without going on about Reason, one thing I read somewhere is this: Whatever the DAW, once decided, it's good to commit to it and try learn it inside out (says the person who wishes he could commit more time to it himself). :lol: And as Jim said, I think just about every DAW has a trial version, so it's possible to try them out.
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by CCKeys » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:58 pm

:? (My Further Adventures)
I'm working with a very qualified audio engineer (who is very experienced with Cubase going back to the beta versions), trying to get my Cubase 9.5.2 running correctly…
We have it - and the R8 driver - installed correctly on a new Asus laptop running Windows 10.
In Cubase everything is selected correctly
and assigned on the tracks, but we are getting no audio… either through the R8 headphone jack, or the laptop speakers, or headphones jack on the laptop.
Most puzzling, we are not seeing audio inside the Cubase software!
The inputs, the outputs, and the driver are assigned correctly - but the VU meters are not moving when track is shown to be playing.

Anyone experience anything like this?
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by Jim_Fogle » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:41 pm

CCKeys,

No, I haven't experienced anything like that, thank goodness!

The R8 performs in two modes, audio interface and surface controller. I suspect that may be where the confusion is at and it's pretty easy to prove. Get Cubase to play ANY sound through the laptop speakers and/or headphones. Then worry about getting Cubase to work with the R8.

Load an audio file into Cubase and play with the settings until you hear the audio file while it is playing. Remember you likely have to close the program and it doesn't hurt to reboot the computer every time you change a setting. IF you can't get Cubase to play audio switch to Audacity and get Audacity to play the audio file. Once you can hear the audio file during playback note the setting for playback through the speakers and the setting for playback through the headphone jack.

SIDENOTE: Does your laptop have one or two 3.5mm jacks? Many laptops combine external microphone and headphone functions into one jack and you go into the laptop audio functions to select which function (audio in or audio out) the jack is performing. Could that be contributing to your issues?

Once all that is straightened out, add the R8 back to the mix and try again.
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Re: DAW Software Struggles

Post by Jim_Fogle » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:49 pm

CCKeys,

Any progress? Sure would like to know how your adventure is progressing.
1 x
http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music
Zoom MRS-8
Gibson acoustic 12-string, Peavey Predator, Line6 Variax, Yamaha keyboard and digital drums
2018 Band-in-a-Box, ChordPulse http://www.chordpulse.com/
Cakewalk by BandLab, Sonar Home Studio, Cakewalk Music Creator 6, Audacity
Win 7 laptop i3, 8 GB DRAM, 500GB SSD

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