R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Discuss the Zoom HD and R series. Please don't "post and run". Participate in the discussion. Thanks.
Post Reply
yodaspeak
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:32 pm

R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by yodaspeak » Fri May 04, 2018 11:53 am

Hi - I'm currently trying to figure out how to record a song's drum patterns - one thing I have not done is dealing with patterns slowing down in the song (not a change in time signature). The song is in 4/4 time, with a 132 = quarter note. Except, there is a bridge in the song of 8 measures where the song slows to 116 = quarter note.

I'm familiar with the pattern editor and track sequencer but I'm not sure how to handle this.

One thought: Could I create a separate project with a BPM of 116 and master a wav file of JUST the drum pattern, and import it into the original and he piece that in with the track sequencer? I'm afraid it would not "end" at the end of a normal 132 measure. I have not used the "stretch" feature (or whatever it is called) is this how I would handle this?

Thanks. Hope it makes sense.
0 x

User avatar
Jim_Fogle
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by Jim_Fogle » Fri May 04, 2018 5:31 pm

What type of transition is there between tempos, gradual or abrupt? Gradual is commonly with a fade out of one tempo with a fade in at the new tempo or the tempo gradually changes over a number of measures (bars). Abrupt would be where a song pauses on a held or shot chord, there is a momentary silence and the music begins again at a different tempo.

Gradual transitions are difficult to match note for note because the timing is dynamic over a long period of time. Abrupt can likely handled with two recording cut and pasted to create a single recording.
0 x
http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music
Zoom MRS-8
Gibson acoustic 12-string, Peavey Predator, Line6 Variax, Yamaha keyboard and digital drums
2018 Band-in-a-Box, ChordPulse http://www.chordpulse.com/
Cakewalk by BandLab, Sonar Home Studio, Cakewalk Music Creator 6, Audacity
Win 7 laptop i3, 8 GB DRAM, 500GB HD

yodaspeak
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:32 pm

Re: R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by yodaspeak » Fri May 04, 2018 7:02 pm

Jim_Fogle wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 5:31 pm
What type of transition is there between tempos, gradual or abrupt? Gradual is commonly with a fade out of one tempo with a fade in at the new tempo or the tempo gradually changes over a number of measures (bars). Abrupt would be where a song pauses on a held or shot chord, there is a momentary silence and the music begins again at a different tempo.

Gradual transitions are difficult to match note for note because the timing is dynamic over a long period of time. Abrupt can likely handled with two recording cut and pasted to create a single recording.

Hi, yes it's an abrupt transition to the slower tempo. I've faked some slower tempos where they happen at the end of a song (just drag the drum beats out) but in this case I cannot do that.
0 x

User avatar
Jim_Fogle
Jedi Zoom Master
Jedi Zoom Master
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by Jim_Fogle » Fri May 04, 2018 8:16 pm

Using just the R24 your idea of creating two projects at different tempos, create and export the audio from one project and then import that audio should work.

As you guessed, the combined audio will no longer match the bars but everything is now audio so it doesn't have to.

Some older Zoom recorders such as most of the MRS series and the HD series have much more extensive editing and mixing capability than the R series. Zoom assumes most users use a computer DAW for editing, mixing and mastering so while surface control and audio interface capability have been added, DAW functionality is reduced.

Many computer DAWs let you use a tempo map. A tempo map lets musicians play naturally, without having to rigidly follow a metronome or click track. The tempo map adjusts bars to match the audio.
0 x
http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... tent=music
Zoom MRS-8
Gibson acoustic 12-string, Peavey Predator, Line6 Variax, Yamaha keyboard and digital drums
2018 Band-in-a-Box, ChordPulse http://www.chordpulse.com/
Cakewalk by BandLab, Sonar Home Studio, Cakewalk Music Creator 6, Audacity
Win 7 laptop i3, 8 GB DRAM, 500GB HD

yodaspeak
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:32 pm

Re: R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by yodaspeak » Sat May 05, 2018 10:58 am

Thanks for the help. Here's another related question: If I create a separate project of just 8 measures (drum pattern) how do I get a final master of JUST 8 measures?

When I create a master of other songs I can just fade out and end when I feel like it. I've never created a master of a specified length. Is there a way to specify that?
0 x

Wulfraed
The Force
The Force
Posts: 3123
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:18 pm
Location: Lowell, MI

Re: R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by Wulfraed » Sat May 05, 2018 4:40 pm

On the predecessor HDx (or the BOSS units in my sig-block), one has inter/intra-track editing.

The R-series only has "divide file": You would have to divide the file at the exact start point you need, delete the wasted first part, then divide the second part at the exact end you need, and delete the wasted tail.

On a device with intra-track editing, one finds a "TRIM" function where one specifies the start and end of the section to be kept, and it doesn't create wasted extra files (they also commonly allow for cut&paste within the same track [the "intra"] or from one track to another [the "inter"]).
1 x
--
Baron Wulfraed
IISS Elusive Unicorn (detached)

Superscope PSD-300; BOSS BR-600, Zoom HD16cd, Zoom R16, BOSS BR-800, Zoom H2n
Now to (re)learn to play an instrument

Lanikai S-C, SMC-E; GoldTone Banjo-Uke; Flatiron 1C, A5; Big Muddy M1-W; Ovation MM68AX, CSE-44; Orpheus Valley Fiesta FS; Taylor NS-72ce, T5-S1; Musima (4st, 20 fret, tenor-tuned) banjo; bongos, dumbeks, bodhrans, hand drum, tambourine; recorder: soprano, alto, tenor; Cedar Flute (5 sizes); Pennywhistle (3 keys); Casio keyboards

yodaspeak
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:32 pm

Re: R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by yodaspeak » Sat May 05, 2018 5:01 pm

I just decided to RTFM and noticed on page 61 (Changing audio tempo without changing pitch) and how to use the "stretch" to change the BPM for a track. I can try this but I'm still not sure how it will work with the Track Sequencer.
0 x

yodaspeak
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:32 pm

Re: R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by yodaspeak » Sat May 05, 2018 10:55 pm

Update: I give up. I can't use the track sequencer with in imported WAV file that is NOT in the same BPM as the project.

I will look into mastering the drum parts in separate WAV files and somehow stitching them together in Audacity. No idea how to do that yet.
0 x

yodaspeak
member in good standing
member in good standing
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:32 pm

Re: R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by yodaspeak » Mon May 14, 2018 4:44 pm

Update: I thought I would follow up. Stitching the WAV files together in Audacity was very simple. Here's what I did.

1. Created separate R24 projects based on BPM, with just the drum patterns. Mastered each into a single WAV files.
2. Made note of exact time length of each mastered WAV file in the R24.
3. Copied WAV files to computer.
4. Opened first pattern WAV file in Audacity. Put cursor at end of pattern based on time length noted in step 2.
5. Opened second pattern in Audacity. Took cursor and "highlighted" WAV file to the end, based on time length.
6. Used "Copy" menu item, went back to first pattern open in other instance of Audacity. Used "Paste" to paste at end.
7. Repeat for all patterns
8. Export final version to WAV file.
9. Copy back to R24, now you have an stereo audio file that takes up 2 tracks.
1 x

User avatar
crowley
senior member
senior member
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:01 pm

Re: R24 - Creating drum patterns 132 BPM and 116 BPM same project

Post by crowley » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:55 pm

Hmm..

From the R8 - I dont have the R24 - should be able to do all in the box.. I don't know where you would be putting the 132 bpm at front or back - either way it shouldnt matter - this is putting the 116bpm at front end...

Project 1 = 132 bpm

Make your drum track to whatever length in sequencer - bounce and export as wav - trim end.

New project Project 2 = 116 bpm
Make your drum sequence to whatever length - eg 32 bars.
Bounce and Trim if needed.

Assign the 116 bpm Wav to two pad (for stereo)
Import the 132 bpm Wav and assign to another pads for stereo

We are treating them as two big one shot samples.

Enter track sequencer - make sure is 116 bpm tempo Quantize at one bar.

Enter the 116 bpm sample in track sequencer - progress to end of that and enter the 132 sample.

NO Timestretching

Just play and bounce the sequence - it doesnt matter the bpm is 116 for the 132 - but it DOES matter for the cut in point that it starts right on the one of the measure you want the 132 to begin.


just cutting out need to export import export audacity...
1 x

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot] and 2 guests